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Cliff Notes guide to the case against Charlie

Nov 17, 2009, 7:30 AM EDT

I’m not here this morning to change anyone’s opinion. Most of us have made up our mind on what the fate of Charlie Weis should be. But if I have a complaint, it’s when the big dogs come out and weigh in on a coach under fire.

Dan Shaughnessy, one of the finest sportswriters in the land, decided that “after a promising start, it’s clear Charlie Weis is done at Notre Dame.” And that proclamation was the cover story on Sports Illustrated’s website.

I’ve got nothing on Shaughnessy as a writer, he’s probably gotten lost on his way to more big games than I’ve ever seen, but if I’m supposed to believe that Shaughnessy’s opinion on Charlie Weis’ job means more than the average Notre Dame fans, then I’m lost.

His new column over at SI.com is your basic Cliff Notes to the Weis must go argument, and for a writer as good as Shaughnessy, he might as well have delivered this one with a Forever Stamp.

In a trim 800 words, Shaughnessy regurgitated the same tired facts:

* Weis has the same record as Bob Davie.

* Weis has the same winning percentage that Ty Willingham had.

* Weis’ best game was a loss to the mighty 2005 USC Trojans.

* Weis lost to Navy two weeks ago. “Navy! In South Bend!”

Listen, I’m not arguing the merits of this case, I’m just complaining that something this tired and played out can be spit out by a writer so esteemed, and then slapped up as the header on one of the most prestigious websites about sports.

When a guy like Shaughnessy, who probably hasn’t actually sat down and watched a Notre Dame game this season, reheats the major talking points without adding a single unique thought to the “should-he-stay-or-should-he-go” debate, it’s just a bunch of hot air.

So much for Notre Dame football being irrelevant…

  1. mrrandolph - Nov 18, 2009 at 7:27 AM

    I do have specific sources. They said it in interviews. It is not heresay, it is admisable because there would be transcripts and archives on tape. Jarrett in a press conference right after the game 2006. And, Cushing on a report on the NFL Network. One of their Path to the Draft segments.
    And, as far as Mike Garrett looking at Charlie’s resume laughing and tearing it up. Pete Carroll did not exactly have a sterling NFL or coaching resume either. I believe he was fired in favor of Bill Belicheat and his staff.

  2. Craig - Nov 18, 2009 at 7:57 AM

    I have been a big ND fan for as long as I can remember watching football. I would never root for the team to lose so the coach can get fired and I sincerely hope they win out the rest of the season. I have supported Coach Weis from day one until the time he is no longer the coach. But I think that time has come and he should not be kept after the end of the season. He has brought in more talent than the previous coaches but he has done less with that talent. When you consistently lose to teams that have inferior talent, its gotta be a coaching problem. ND hadnt lost to Navy in over 40 years and to lose to them twice in 3 years is ridiculous. I agree most of the blame falls on the defense this year but the offense has had its problems as well.

  3. NDFAN401 - Nov 18, 2009 at 9:50 AM

    STEVE, YES I DO KNOW OTHER TEAMS BESIDES ND, WHICH ONE WOULD YOU LIKE TO DISCUSS? I THOUGHT THIS WAS A NOTRE DAME DISCUSSION AND DID NOT KNOW I WOULD HAVE TO DISCUSS OTHER TEAMS TO VALIDATE MY KNOWLEDGE AND OPINIONS ON THIS NOTRE DAME SUBJECT. HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE ON ALL OF THIS, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO COME TO OUR SCHOOL, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO IS COACHING THE TEAM, WHAT DOES MATTER IS THAT AS NOTRE DAME FANS WE WANT TO SEE THE SCHOOL AND FOOTBALL PROGRAM FLOURISH. RIGHT NOW, IT IS THE JOB OF JACK SWARBRICK, CHARLIE WEIS AND ALL THE OTHER COACHES AND PLAYERS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. I AM NOT DISILLUSIONED ABOUT NOTRE DAME IT HAS BEEN MANY YEARS SINCE WE WON ANYTHING RELEVANT, BUT THEY ARE MY FAVORITE TEAM AND I AM NOT FAIR WEATHERED ABOUT THEM I WILL TAKE THE GOOD WITH THE BAD AND CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THEM. I DO HOWEVER WANT TO SEE THEM RETURN TO GLORY AND THE RIGHT PEOPLE NEED TO BE PUT IN PLACE TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. I JUST HOPE THAT THE PROCESS OF THAT HAPPENING IS NOT A KNEE JERK REACTION TO PRESSURE FROM THE ALUMNI, PRESS OR ANY OTHER SOURCE THAT IS JUST SIMPLY BASHING CHARLIE WEIS WHEN THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO SHARE IN THIS MESS. I DON’T WANT TO SEE SOMEONE THAT IS NOT GOING TO DO ANY BETTER BE HIRED AND BE DEALING WITH THIS PROBLEM AGAIN IN ANOTHER 3 YEARS, AS A NOTRE DAME FAN I JUST WANT TO WIN!!!

  4. StephenOfTroy - Nov 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM

    mrrandolph: Even if Cushing and Jarrett did say what you say they said, my point was always that what they said isn’t relevant. Even if you get past the hearsay rule, evidence still has to be relevant to be admissible, remember? :) They came to USC, not ND. If the Russians had joined Hitler, WWII might have been different. But they didn’t.
    We need to deal with what actually happens. This appears to be a big problem for many Irish fans. Talking about allegedly bad calls, allegedly crooked refs who allegedly want to help a conference make money in bowl games, allegedly bad coaches from the past who allegedly left a mess for the present coach to clean up, and so forth just IGNORES the reality on the field. ND has better talent than its record reflects. I don’t see how that can be chalked up to anything but inferior coaching.
    Oh, and “Bill Belicheat?” Good one! Who, by the way, do you think benefited from the cheating by spying on the defensive signals? Why, the Patriots’ offensive coordinator, Charlie Weis! So, if you’re honest about it, Weis got the ND job because he got a helping hand at his prior job. Is that meaningfully different from the CLAIM that Ty Willingham was an “entitlement” or “affirmative action” hire? Just asking.

  5. mrrandolph - Nov 18, 2009 at 7:12 PM

    Stephenoftroy:Here is what you said in your last post.
    mrrandolph: hearsay is inadmissible unless an exception applies. I am not a lawyer but if Cushing and Jarrett both said it in interviews (that are on record) than I would think it is not heresay but reality. But, my point is that alot of kids have transferred or decided not to come to ND because of some of these coaching decisions and the result of broken promises in the case of Jarrett.
    And, if Hitler had not broken his agreement his Stalin and try to take Moscow and if it hadn’t been for the harsh Russian winter. Russia never would have had a chance to join the Allied Forces. And, anyway, America’s involvement is the only reason Europe is free today to diss the USA at every opportunity.
    And, I have never blamed the refs for losing a game. There are way over 100 plays a ballgame with everyone designed to either score or stop a score. The Clausen fumble/incomplete pass didn’t cause ND to lose. The long pass before halftime, the Pitt RB breaking the long TD run, poor tackling on Pitt offense play 1-60 all had something to do with the loss.
    And, anyone who played the Pats during CW’s OC days and lost: StL SB by 3pts, Eagles and Panthers in SB by 3pts, Titans in playoffs by 3 pts, Steelers in a couple of Championship games by a score. But, all of those teams are to old now to come back and play the game and make it right. And, I believe it was football justice that their perfect season was ended by a team they should have beat. And, ir it were played Sunday, and I knew the outcome, it would still be hard for me to bet against a perfect team.
    As for the Ty thing, I really could care less his skin color, height, weight, IQ, etc.; I just want someone who can coach.
    I really enjoy your comments and questions and I know you are a good guy and I for one like differing opinions for they make you think your positions through and change if need be.

  6. dan e - Nov 18, 2009 at 7:26 PM

    you come onto this nd blog slinging mud about the smug attitudes and opinions of notre dame fans and then try to use logic to “hear” you out. your “stereotyping” of notre dame fans is very conflicting to your posts of “logic”. i am but one voice on this blog out of,…i would guestimate…one hundred or so, and bloggers have been pretty much all over the map about the “state” of notre dame football. it doesnt bother me that you are here…knock yourself out…notre dame means alot of things to different people, some hate, some love, either way its relevant and theres a reason why. domers know, others are left slinging mud

  7. StephenOfTroy - Nov 19, 2009 at 10:43 PM

    Good points, mrrandolph. And I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that although a lot of the guys who lost close games to the (cheating) Pats may be too old to strap on a helmet and do it over again, they’d be eager to give it a shot (provided they played against the same players they originally faced!), you know?
    You’re a good guy, too. I also enjoy your comments. I don’t need you to agree with me (my hurt inner child does, but he doesn’t count). I agree with what you said about differing opinions. Otherwise you don’t really learn anything. It’s the same reason I always wanted to play basketball against players who are better than I am. Otherwise I don’t improve. And if some ND fans just want a “safe zone” where they can stroke each others’ ego and talk about how ND is perfect in every way (Keep TOUCHDOWN CHARLIE and we’re in the hunt for a NATIONAL TITLE next year, bay-bee!) and no one ever points out that the emperor seems a bit threadbare, then I’m sure there’s an empty treehouse where they can congregate.

  8. BigMike4562 - Nov 24, 2009 at 7:30 AM

    See those teams did one thing, they hired an experienced coach capable of changing the program. Urban Meyer being one, Les Miles, Bob Stoops, the only problem is Ty was on the same course until you get an NFL coach who had no experience at running a team let alone an inexperienced bunch of kids…..I feel for you as fans and appreciate your outlook…

  9. mrrandolph - Nov 24, 2009 at 7:48 AM

    Thanks BigMike!!
    My point is that with the right choice it can turn in a hurry. I don’t however feel CW is the right choice.
    Here are some teams that like ND struggled atleast 10 years with multiple coaches that hired the right man and returned to the top.
    LSU before Nick Saban: 3 coaches in 10 years Archer,Hallman, DiNardo
    Texas b4 Mack Brown: McWiliams, Mackovic
    USC b4 Carroll: Smith, Robinson, Hackett
    Oklahoma b4 Stoops: Gibbs, Schnellenberger,Blake
    Georgia b4 Richt: Goff,Donnan
    Alabama b4 Saban: DuBose,Franchione,Shula
    Wisconsin b4 Alvarez: McClain, Hilles,Morton

  10. Thomas - Dec 3, 2009 at 9:37 AM

    good good…this post deserves nothing :( …hahaha just joking :P …nice post :P

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