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Frazer's return highlights recruiting's challenges

Nov 18, 2009, 7:30 AM EDT

Zach Frazer will walk onto the field at Notre Dame Stadium Saturday and start at quarterback, fulfilling a dream he had when he became the first high profile recruiting commitment of the Charlie Weis era.

That the dream is coming true isn’t a testament to Frazer’s patience, but merely a coincidence that Notre Dame is playing Connecticut, where Frazer transferred after his freshman season. UConn will play Notre Dame for the first time in either schools’ history.

Frazier came to Notre Dame as the hand-picked quarterback of Weis and then quarterbacks coach David Cutcliffe, the man responsible for grooming the Manning brothers. When asked to look back on Zach’s recruitment yesterday, Weis still remembered plenty.

“Zach was interesting. You know, his junior year he was surrounded by a bunch of front line players and a lot
of weapons,” Weis said. “They were really, really
good his junior year. Then they lost a lot of players going
into his senior year, and he was kind of a one-man gang. He came here and was a good player for
us. We went through a spring where things didn’t
work out in the depth chart for him, and he decided it would be in his
best interest to try to find another opportunity. It was a very cordial way he handled it. I’m glad to see him playing. I just hope he doesn’t play very well this week.”

Frazier’s wayward road was a common theme Charlie Weis’ much heralded 2006 recruiting class. Twenty-eight players gave their commitment to Notre Dame, headlined by Sam Young, James Aldridge, Matt Carufel, Demetrius Jones, Konrad Rueland and Frazer. The fact that of those blue-chip recruits only Young has turned into a front-line player shows the difficulties that come with projecting a recruiting class.

Jones, Carufel, Reuland, Richard Jackson, Munir Prince, Luke Schmidt, Bartley Webb, Jashaad Gaines, Will Yeatman, every one of those recruits came to Notre Dame and left without their promise fulfilled. For Schmidt and Webb, injuries derailed them. For Yeatman, a much-publicized fall out with a rigid Student Affairs office got in the way of a promising two-sport career. For others attrition came from transfers for various reasons.

Of the vaunted 28-member class, let’s take a look at the contributions they’ve made, working down from one to twenty-eight.

1) Sam Young: Even if he has yet to become the player many hoped, he started every game he suited up for in his Notre Dame career. I don’t think many other offensive tackles can say that.

2) Eric Olsen: Heart and soul of offensive line. Would’ve been great to let him redshirt.

3) Robby Parris: Turned into the lone offensive weapon out of this recruiting class.

4) Chris Stewart: Transformed his body to be solid contributor on offensive line. Catalyst for recruiting class as high schooler.

5) Darrin Walls: Career hasn’t been what many hoped, but still has a year left to fulfill his promise.

6) Sergio Brown: Sometimes you notice him for the wrong reasons (tackling against Pitt), but he’s one of the only play-makers on the defense.

7) Dan Wenger: Took one for the team this year while providing depth along the line. Helped start the Aquinas pipeline with Young.

8) Raeshon McNeil: A forgotten man that still ranked 11th in school history in passes broken up heading into this season.

9) John Ryan: Looked lost early in his career, but has become a nice role player at defensive end.

10) James Aldridge: A high school knee injury never let us see the five-star recruit that signed with the Irish. A valuable contributor at fullback/halfback when not injured.

11) Toryan Smith: Notre Dame’s best run-stuffing linebacker lost his job with the emergence of Manti Te’o. (Would’ve been valuable against Navy…)

12) Paddy Mullen: Recruited as a tight end, has become nice presence as goal-line nose tackle.

13) Barry Gallup: Found his niche as special teams ace/kick returner.

14) George West: Never broke through as a offensive threat, but deserves kudos as one of the school’s first early enrollees.

15) Leonard Gordon: Hybrid corner/safety that also contributes on special teams.

16) Morrice Richardson: Promising edge rusher that loss reps with the emergence of Kapron Lewis-Moore.

17) Kallen Wade: Ditto.

18) Zach Frazer: Now the starting quarterback at UConn. Can’t blame him after coming out third in the 2007 quarterback derby behind Demetrius Jones and Jimmy Clausen.

19) Luke Schmidt: Promising H-back robbed of career from lingering concussion and injury issues.

20) Will Yeatman: Two-sport threat probably won’t be donating to university after getting mistreated by Student Affairs. Transferred to Maryland to play football and lacrosse.

21) Bartley Webb: Tackle prospect lost to a career ending shoulder injury.

22) Munir Prince: Running back/cornerback transferred to Missouri after getting passed in depth chart.

23) Richard Jackson: Seldom used receiver transferred to UCF. No longer on the roster.

24) Jashaad Gaines: Seldom used safety now plays linebacker for Texas Southern.

25) Konrad Reuland: Former blue-chip recruit struggled to break through at Notre Dame and transferred to Stanford. Has five catches this season for the Cardinal.

26) Ryan Burkhart: Hometown product still on scholarship, one of four kickers on the Irish roster.

27) Matt Carufel: Promising offensive guard that transferred home to Minnesota after losing his starting job to Eric Olsen.

28) Demetrius Jones: Former team leader walked out on team after losing his starting job after one game in 2007 to Jimmy Clausen. Nearly enrolled at Northern Illinois before heading to Cincinatti, where he now plays linebacker.

It’s pretty easy to see why this Fighting Irish squad is still struggling with veteran productivity, because this class was almost a complete punt. Even it’s best player failed to live up to his potential, and guys like Robby Parris — good glue guys — shouldn’t be the top skill contributor of the group.

You can’t blame Weis for some of the injuries and attrition that took place, but if you actually go back and look at other top recruiting classes (scroll through USC’s one day), you’ll see that this kind of thing is pretty normal.

Looking at this class today, there isn’t a great defensive player on the list. Walls has the potential to be a good cornerback, but there isn’t a starting caliber front-seven player in the group, which is as good of evidence as you’d want to why this defense is struggling.

  1. Terry - Nov 18, 2009 at 8:36 AM

    All of Weis’ recruiting classed have been highly ranked when first announced. Looking at the results, one must conclude that it’s the coaching.
    The story is told that one of the rallying calls for the BC coach last year prior to the game against ND was his asking his players “how many of you were recruited by Notre Dame?” None. They then proceeded to whip ND good. Again, one must conclude that it’s the coaching.
    In 1964 Ara Parseghian showed up and took a team that had won only 2 games the year before to within 2 minutes of the National Championship. None of the players on that team were his recruits. One must conclude that it’s the coaching.
    Charlie Weis is a good guy and he is a good recruiter but he is NOT a big-time college football coach.
    Ergo …..

  2. Evan - Hartford - Nov 18, 2009 at 10:17 AM

    Recruiting has been the major difference between Weis vs. Davie and Willingham. Otherwise, all their records and exploits have been virtually identical.
    The reason I want to give Weis one more year is because:
    A) His first two years were great. Notre Dame fans have short memories, but they can’t forget that Weis was the first coach since Holtz to have back to back 9 win seasons.
    B) Weis has shown that he can lead an effective offense. With the exception of the year in which he basically didn’t have a viable quarterback, the offense under him has been great.
    C) Weis knows that he isn’t a defensive specialist and he has tried to find the right coach to complement him. Obviously that hasn’t happened yet, but when it does, look out.
    I want to see if these great recruits translate into success. I also want to see who he brings in to replace Tenuta. The bottom line is, whenever you have a major coaching change at a big program, you almost always have to give at coach at LEAST 5 years to turn things around. This year has been a disappointment, but hardly a failure. Give him one more year.

  3. NDFAN401 - Nov 18, 2009 at 12:12 PM


  4. eric - Nov 18, 2009 at 12:35 PM

    evan, my opinion as well bud. One more year, but that should be it. At least let his first real recruiting class finish with the same coach, then abondon ship if it sinks..but dont jump ship while its still floating…

  5. StephenOfTroy - Nov 18, 2009 at 1:08 PM

    Evan – Hartford: You said recruiting has been the major difference between Weis and Willingham/Davie, but then in the same breath you tell us Weis’s first two years were great.
    Um, didn’t Weis have WILLINGHAM’S recruits for his first two years? If there was a sequitur in there, I missed it.
    I can only conclude that Weis is not a good coach. Some have said that Brady Quinn came to ND because the allure of the school. I think they’re just trying to avoid giving Willingham any credit. Otherwise you have to say the same thing about every one of Weis’s recruits. Under this theory, the Golden Dome is a giant magnet that is solely responsible for any player’s decision to come to South Bend. And if that’s the case, you can only go by a coach’s win-loss record, and Weis’s record stinks.
    NDFAN401, you made good points and I agree with much of what you said. But, and please don’t take this the wrong way, writing in all caps is difficult to read, so people may not be able to read and digest what you’re writing.
    Mr. Arnold, I thought this was a well-written post, and it conveys a good deal of down-in-the-weeds information. It shows you know a lot about the ND program. Well done. I feel, by the way, for the kids who get injured in high school after realizing the dream of getting a scholarship to a school like ND. What-could-have-been-will-never-be, you know? Anyway, good stuff. Keep it coming, please.

  6. Keith Arnold - Nov 18, 2009 at 2:27 PM

    @Terry — I think your logic is a little bit off.
    You state: “All of Weis’ recruiting classed have been highly ranked when first announced. Looking at the results, one must conclude that it’s the coaching.”
    Or you could conclude that recruiting services and subjective rankings don’t have a clue what they’re talking about.
    I’d take the Notre Dame staff — a collective of probably 100 years of coaching experience — over the rankings of Rivals and Scout websites.
    The problem lies with perception. College coaches need to placate these websites because the recruits read and believe them.
    Check out the book MEAT MARKET by Bruce Feldman. He talks about how the staff at Ole Miss might not have been that high on a certain player, but because they were a five-star recruit, it made them look better, and helped with players that they did want.
    It’s a fuzzy game, and while Rivals et al might get the top 100 guys pretty close to correct, those guys from 100-500, that’s where the bias comes in, and that’s when those recruits start getting propped up because they’ve got an offer from ND or another big school with a high spending fan base.

  7. Dennis - Nov 18, 2009 at 2:28 PM

    Stephen of Troy,
    Willingham’s recruiting was good early on, but he completely stopped recruiting his last couple years. That’s what led to Charlie Weis’ truly horrific seasons. When Willingham’s “recruits” were seniors/juniors, we were screwed. If that hadn’t happened, we wouldn’t even be talking about firing Weis. The “Willingham’s recruits” argument makes me want to throw up. His recruits are responsible for the worst two year run in ND history, end of story.

  8. Ryan-S - Nov 18, 2009 at 2:33 PM

    StephenOfTroy–Quinn wasn’t even recruited by Willingham until Chinedum Ndkuwe’s dad told him that he should take a look. I don’t see how this “Weis only won with Ty’s players” argument can have any merit. First, Ty only won with Bob Davie’s players, I dont know how thats relevant to what I’m trying to say, but its worth noting. That 02 defense was insane. After they all left, the team sucked. Second, where were all the players under Ty? Is it really a coincidence that Quinn, Samardzija, McKnight, Stovall, Fasano all broke out under Weis? The team under Ty was clearly going in the wrong direction. Maybe 3 years was too soon, but seeing what he did at Washington, can we really go back and question that?
    That being said, the only plausible argument I can make is he brings in great players. But I’m sure another high-profile guy like Kelly would be able to do this too. His offensive playcalling skills are not even a calling card of him now. Look at the offense in the first half since the USC game:
    USC: 7 points
    BC: 13
    WSU: 30
    Navy: 0
    Pitt: 3
    Aside from WSU–which can pretty much be discredited due to the fact that they are terrible–the offense has not existed in the first half. After the Pitt game he admitted they were being ‘conservative,’ since thats what they normally do on the road, and that they felt they were in good position being down 10-3. First, it appears they were being ‘conservative’ in the first half a lot longer then just this past weekend. Second, why would you do that? You have arguably the best QB and 2 of the best receivers in America, and you’re being conservative? Is that what ND has come to, that we play not to lose in the first half, that we are happy only being down 7 at half? That to me is just unacceptable. This team still has no killer instinct, it hasn’t really ever had one under Weis. Yeah the man brings in great players, but what good is that if they are always playing down to the talent level of the opponent? Bottom line is we were supposed to win 10 games this year and go to the BCS. Now we will be lucky to win 7. It’s time for him to go, time to get a coach who will install passion, fire into this program.

  9. mrrandolph - Nov 18, 2009 at 3:36 PM

    I wish I were on the inside looking out and I would tell everyone on here if CW will survive. But, I am like you I am on the outside looking in.
    I am trying to be fair. The ND problems with being mediocre didn’t start with CW. All three of the HC since Lou have the same winning % .583 that is what 7-5 and all have had losing seasons and all contributed to the record 8 straight bowl losses.
    But, I try to remember the Nebraska story with Tom Osbourne who did not win a Nat’l Title until his 19th or 20th season. They had 7 straight losing bowl games and loss four by 20 or more points. Almost all of Nebraska Nation wanted to get rid of him eventhough they rarely loss more than three games. Experts said they didn’t and couldn’t recruit speed at Nebraska.
    Well, they broke that streak and won 3 out of next four Nat’l Championships and their record(at the time) 7th consecutive bowl loss was to Florida State (93 season)18-16 when they missed a FG as time expired. If they would have won that game they would have won 4 out of 5 Nat’l Titles.

  10. TLNDMA - Nov 18, 2009 at 6:49 PM

    Keith, the problem with your argument is, if it is valid, that means Weis is not a good recruiter. It’s one or the other, good recruiter, not so good results, not so good recruiter, getting what he can out of not so good recruits.

  11. Keith Arnold - Nov 18, 2009 at 6:59 PM

    Disagree with you. You can be a good recruiter and have a class that doesn’t pan out — just ask Pete Carroll. Things aren’t as black and white as you’re making them when it comes to recruiting, because when you’re projecting talent, you just can’t be certain.

  12. sharkey - Nov 18, 2009 at 7:05 PM

    Totally agree. I blame 07 and 08 seasons mostly on Ty’s poor recruiting. Charlie had nothing but frosh and sophomores to play. It has taken this long for these players to mature, and i am willing to risk one more season to let Charlie turn this around. One more try, and if not, then fine, its goodbye, Charlie.

  13. robertg - Nov 18, 2009 at 7:48 PM

    1. when charlie took the notre dame job, notre dame’s recruiting network was dead.
    2. in addition, for very good reasons, recruits and their families did not trust notre dame’s football program because of the egregious manner in which certain people at notre dame dealt with the tyrone matter.
    3. charlie and his staff hit the recruiting trails very hard all over the us, visiting high schools that had not had a visit from anyone connected with notre dame for over 10 years. recruits commit to coaches and their staffs and not to schools, even notre dame, if the coaching situations are not stable.
    4. in addition to all of the distrust about coaching stability, when charlie and his staff hot the recruiting trails very hard in 2006 and 2007( rember that charlie had vitually zero involvement in 2005 recruiting, charlie and his staff found poison directed at notre dame, in the form of fraudulent information planted on the recruiting trails by pete carroll and other dishonest coaches competing with notre dame for recruits, along with the usual media shill bashings.
    5. well, charlie and his staff, despite these huge obstacles, have recreated notre dame’s recruiting network and made it stronger than ever, briniging in the nation’s no 1 recruiting class in 2008, sophomores this year, every one of them extremely talented real student athletes who meet notre dame’s very high academic and character standards.
    6. however, each season that charlie has been at notre dame, certain media shills led by eric hansen and his associates at the south bend tribune have intentionally planted fraudulent information about charlie and his staff and notre dame’s student athletes and fans in the south bend tribune(wire fraud for civil rico purposes).
    7.their specific intents have been to drive recruits away from notre dame and every year, they have succeeded in driving certain key recruits away from notre dame who would have chosen notre dame but for that fraudulent information.
    8. eric hansen and his media shill conspirators are now trying to do the same thing with notre dame’s 2010 recruits and, to a certain extent, they have already done some real damage with their latest roung of bgarbage about the jobs of charlie and his staff being in danger.
    9. anyone who wants to find out what notre dame’s student athletes think of charlie and his staff need only go to and watch and listen to the interviews with notre dame’s student athletes.
    10. while the admiration for charlie and his staff spans the entire notre dame team, focus carefully on the words of jimmy clausen and golden tate. if charlie were not at notre dame, they would not be at notre dame.
    11. last season, jack swarbrick made a mistake(after all, jack was new to the ad job and did not understand the disasterous recruiting results of the delays)by not announging until the end of the season that charlie would be back and had the full support of notre dame and that notre dame had determined that the current officiating, rules enforcement, and rankings systems are hopelessly corrupt and that notre dame demands immediate changes.
    12. the cost of that delay in the recruiting wars in 2009 was very high in 2009 and will be even higher in 2010 and in future seasons if jack has not learned his lesson which we are informed that jack now has, being an extremely intelligent man who really loves notre dame.
    13. why do eric hansen and the other media shills intentionally put online and spread this fraudulent information every season? they get paid to do that by pete carroll and notre dame’s enemies in the recruiting wars. ask eric hansen to produce financial records. we certainly will at his deposition and at the depositions of the other media shills who are the equivcalent of the stock brokers who continued to shill enron and mci worldcom shares even after they knew, or should have known, that the books were cooked. you will find that eric hansen and the other paid media shills( of course, there are many innocent members of the media who get conned by the fraudulent information put out every season by the hansenites).
    14. you will find that the material possessions accumulated by the hansenites and their patterns of expenditures would be impossible without significant sources of income in addition to the salaries paid o them by the south bend tribune and the other outlets which are their employers on the surface.
    15. since we do have an inside seat, but no votes, on the decision making process about charlie and his staff, we know that the decision of full support has already been made that they will bge staying at notre dame next season and for the forseeable future.
    16. it is up to the people who have made that decision and jack swarbrick to put an end to that quaint notre dame custom of waiting until the end of every season to make the public announcement of that decision.
    17. after all, recruits and their families and notre dame’s current student athletes are simply not willing to wait around to make their decisions about notre dame.
    18. there are no people on this planet better suited and more qualified to run notre dame’s football program than charlie and his staff.
    19. only when we eliminate and replace the current corrupt officiating, rules enforcement, and rankings systems in the civil courts. with extreme economic prejudice, before next season begins, will notre dame’s fans and the nation begin to see on the field what magnificent jobs charlie and his staff and notre dame’s student athletes have done and will always do.
    20. given the levels of corruption in the systems this season, the paper won loss records and scores are completely meaningless.
    21. notre dame’s real student athletes are fine courageous young men who keep on fighting and never throw in the towel.
    22. however, at a certain point, even if it is just at a subconscious level, they begin to wonder why jack swarbrick and notre dame have not made public their full support for charlie and his staff and notre ame’s student athletes and their disgust with the current corrupt officiating, rules enforcement,and rankings systems.
    GO IRISH!!!

  14. TLNDMA - Nov 18, 2009 at 10:46 PM

    Whoa, I know it’s not black and white. If you and I both know that the recruiting ratings are not fact, but judgements, then it behooves a coach to recruit ‘his guys’. My point is, you can’t have it both ways, good recruits, no results. You have been the one, who has repeatedly mentioned Weis’s recruiting as a reason to give him more time. Do you expect the arrow to switch and start pointing up next year. Do you really want to compare Petey Carroll’s recruiting and results to Weis’s? As much as I cringe and curl up into the fetal position when I think of SC’s success, that comparison only tightens the noose on Charlie.

  15. robertg - Nov 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM

    1. there are no nooses anywhere near charlie or his staff or any of notre dame’s real student athletes who also play football.
    2. now that the coverup scams which petey and mikey and the usc athletic program have been blown up by us in the civil courts in our big forced public disclosure win over the ncaa on 11/15/2009 and the many followups, there are many economic nooses closing very quickly around numerous parts of the anatomies of petey and mikey and the usc football program and the other predator coaches and schools around the us who have, year after year, fielded teams of full time football players with zero academic obligations who do not qualify as student athletes.
    3. notre dame could have chosen to climb into the sewers and pile up phony paper wins just like usc and mikey and petey.
    4. however, notre dame does not operate that way and never will.
    5. there is no question that charlie and his staff are the perfect fits for notre dame, not only for next season, but for the forseeable future. those decisions have already been made by all the people who have that power, with only the public announcements to come sooner rather than later.
    6.but for the current corrupt officiating, rules enforcement, and rankings systems, none of which will be around next season or in future seasons, the real current record of notre dame’s 2009 team is 10-0, not 6-4.
    7.the public announcements by notre dame will put the hansenites and other media shills out of business and charlie and his staff and notre dame’s student athletes, who play a key role in recruiting, will be able to get those recruits who got conned into choosing football factory schools other than notre dame.
    8. even allowing for the fact that notre dame’s very high academic and character standards prevent notre dame from recruiting a very large percentage of the most athletically talented high school football players every season, charlie and his staff and notre dame’s student athletes and what notre dame offers will get notre dame all of the talent that notre dame needs to be in the national title hunt every season.
    9. anyone who considers what usc, florida, alabama, and the other football factories to be genuine successes and is expecting notre dame to crawl into those sewers needs to find another school to root for.
    10. since pete carroll has been a serial cheater and con artist ever since he arrived at usc and took mikey’s offer the cheat to win, pete carroll forfeited all rights to be compared to charlie and his staff and notre dame’s real student athletes who have operated with integrity and honesty and as genuine student athletes playing by the rules, even though they are regularly cheated out of wins by crooked conference officials promoting the agendas of the conferences which hire and pay them to do those things.
    11. except for the time frame that charlie and his staff already have been given at notre dame( with only the public annoucements to come), keith’s analysis is very close to hitting bullseyes.
    GO IRISH!!!

  16. robertg - Nov 19, 2009 at 2:41 AM

    1. charlie and his staff and notre dame’s student athletes who also play football have won yet another national championship in football.
    2. according to the mosr recent graduation success rates released by the ncaa today. notre dame and duke are tied for no.1 at 96%, navy is no.3 at 93%( soon to take a very big hit when every navy player who was involved in the illegal cutblocking against notre dame players throughout that game knowing in advance, along with their head coach) that the officials would not call 90% of the penalties committed, gets kicked out of the naval academy without any diplomas(no, these were not the accidental cutblocks called against brady quinn and against notre dame diring the pitt game, but the type intended to cause serious injuries). northwestern is no. 4 at 92% and vanderbilt and boston college(also the benefiary of dishonest officiating at the 2009 notre dame/ boston college game even though notre dame did beat both boston college and the dishonest officials)are tied for no. 5 at 91%, with the so called football power elite rarely cracking the 50% level, even though these football factories regularly hand out diplomas based on courses with zero academic content or simply do not exist.
    3. based on notre dame’s evaluation systems, these achievements in the classroom in real academic courses and in the off the field personal lives of notre dame’s student athletes who also play football, zero ncaa violations count much more than paper win loos records, especially when every single paper loss in 2009 was orchestrated by one or more dishonest conference officiating crews.
    4. these are among the many reasons the reasons why the powers that make those decisions have correctly decided that charlie and his staff will be back for next season and for many seasons to come.
    5. as jimmy clausen so succinctly put it in his press conference today, still avaliable at by clicking on the football game site link” no member of notre dames 2009 team feels that this 2009 team is really a 6-4 team”.
    6. the current ncaa level so called sportmanship conduct rules(aka keero quiet about the crooked officiating or you will be banned from college football) prohibit charlie and his staff and notre dame’s student athletes from saying very much about dishonest officiating.
    7. however, jimmy said as much as he could without breaking those rules, which also will not be around next season.
    GO IRISH!!!

  17. robertg - Nov 19, 2009 at 4:31 AM

    1. moving on to the nfl perspective, quite a few notre dame student athletes who were coached and developed by charlie weis and his staff have ended up with very lucrative nfl contracts and a mumer have been playying in the nfl for a number of years, with only brady quinn not having any real opportunity to show what he can do since brady is currently stuck at nfl nightmare cleveland, although he will not be there for very much longer with seattle being his most likely destination, where he can join up with already very succesful notre dame te john carlson.
    2. some notre dame student athletes coached or developed by charlie weis have received nfl contracts, but, because of injuries or for other reasons, are not currently on nfl rosters.
    3. because they followed the advice of charlie and his staff, notre dame student athletes do not try to hold up nfl teams for the immense upfront signing bonuses which pete carroll encourages his usc full time athletes to do.
    4. in the area of conning nfl teams into paying huge upfront bonuses to products of petey full time nfl prep program, no college coach has sold to nfl teams more total busts for more upfront money than petey and the usc football program. thep;roblems are the petey’s usc full time football players can almost always look fantastic in college games, especially when they are playing teams full of real student athletes with real academic obligations.
    5. well, when petey’s full time usc football players show up in the nfl, where everyone plays football full time, with minor exceptions, these usc hotshots lose the advantages they had over opponents at the college level and become very expensive nfl busts, with their lack of character causing another set of very serious problems.
    6. many nfl teams are starting to avoid procucts of petey’s usc full time football program.
    7. very few, if any. nfl teams have those problems with notre dame student athletes.
    8. football players from the football factories, with minor exceptions, end up being bankrupted by dishonest agents and financial advisors since they lack the educations necessary to protect themslves, unlike notre dame student athletes in the nfl.
    9. for those who pick the football factories and fail to make the nfl or who do not last very long,unlike every notre dame student athlete who gets one or more degrees in highly marketable academic fields, those victims of the football factories leave the schools and predator coaches that have victimized them with no degrees at all or with degrees in areas of study that provide zero marketable skills.
    10. for anyone who meets notre dame’s very high academic and character standars, the choice of notre dame is a real no brainer provided that they and their families se coaching stability at notre dame.
    11. of course, notre dame student athletes will not start showing up in very large numbers in the nfl draft until charlie 2008, now sophomores, finish their 4 or 5 years at notre dame.
    12. provided that notre dame does not sabotage charlie’s 2010 recruting class, as did happen, to a significant extent, with notre dame’s 2009 recruiting class because of jack swarbrick’s very late public announcement of support for charlie and his staff, with immediate public announcements of support for charlie and his staff and notre dame’s student athletes, along with demands that the current corrupt officiating, rules enforcement, and ranking systems be changed immediately, then the sky is the limit for notre dame football while charlie and his staff are at notre dame.
    GO IRISH!!!

  18. robertg - Nov 19, 2009 at 9:43 AM

    1. adding some additional background facts to keith’s analysis of recruiting, when charlie arrived at notre dame, he found a few very talented players from prior recruiting classes and one fine recruiting class, the class of 2003(brady quinn, the shark, zibby et al), who were attracted to notre dame by a year of miracles in the 2002 season with which tyrone had something to do, but which was a player driven very good season sparked by certain notre dame student athletes,with the spiritual leader being cb shane walton.
    2. the recruiting cycles for 2004 and 2005 contained a few high quality athletes, but not the depth and quality of talent at every position which is necessary to sustain a serious national title drive.
    3. working with a very thin line of talent, so thin that a few key injuries could simply not be replaced
    ,charlie and his staff accomplished miracles in making 2 bcs games in a row in 2005 and 2006.
    4.charlie and his staff hit the recruiting trails very hard in 2006 and 2007 and brought in some very fine student athletes. charlie and his staff never lie to recruits and to their families.
    6. these student athletes, because of the lack of depth weregoing to be able to play early, but without the normal preparation which student athletes, especially linemen and qbs and cbs and safeties and lbs should be given when not surrounded by many other players with experience.
    7. the results in 2007 were prettymuch written in stone for the 2007 season before charlie ever arrived at notre dame. davie had not seriously recruited because davie was just lazy. tyrone did not hit ther recruing trails vey hard because his fine 2003 recruiting class essentially arrived at his front door because of that miraculous 2002 season and because no one at notre dame had bothered to tell tyrone that lazy bob davie had let the notre dame recruiting network die on the vines.
    8. not that charlie or his staff or any of notre dame’s student athletes wanted the 2007 season to turn out the way that it did,but it did because of lack of experience and depth.
    9. despite the disaterous year on the field in 2007, charlie and his staff had finally visited enough high schools all over the us that rust in notre dame football began tobe restored.
    10 in the 2008 recruiting cycle, charlie and his staff pulled in the nation’s no 1 recruiting class, now just sophomores, despite the constant barrage of garbage from the hansenites, butthe hansenites did drive away from notre dame a number of key recruits, including a ket dt.
    11. really gettingin the running for national championships requires a number of top 5 recruiting classes in a row and filling every position of need with talent and depth and then experience comes together at every position at the same time.
    12. former ad kevin white was a great help in holding together that 2008 recruiting class by giving many public statements throughout the 2007 season that charlie and his staff had notre dame’s full confidence and support despite the record on the field and those statements of support pretty much neutralized the hansenite media shills.
    13. during the 2009 recruiting cycle, notre dame ad jack swarbrick simply did not understand the key dynamics of recruiting and notre dame lost a number of key commits to other schools simply because recruits and their families detest coaching instability and becausethe long silence from jack convinced those recruits andtheir families that there really was somethinjg to the hansenite garbage.
    14. recruiting for the 2010 cycle is crucial and notre dame can simply not afford to lose the key recruits to other schools, as notre dame did in the 2009 recriting cycle.
    15. jack is simply going to have to move up his anouncement of full support for charlie and his staff for next season and for the forseeable future and abandon this one season at a time approach unlesshe wants to destroy notre dame recruiting year by year.
    16. putting aside the fact that charlie and his staff are the perfect fit for notre dame are the facts that not one of the potential candidates mentioned for the notre dame head coaching job wants that the job and the garbage that goes along with it, including the vicious media attacks on themselves and their familiesand being shaftedby dishonest conferene officials every week as an independent. brian kelly of cincinnati,which plays in the big east and does get special favors from the big east officials which he would not get at notre dame. in sddition, each of the candidates has a family which they do not want to bev exposed tom the hasenite garbage which isconstantly thrown at charlie and hisstaff and their families by the hansenitemediashills
    17. in addition, if charlie and his staff were toleave notre dame, jimmy clausenand others would jump to the nfl and notre dame would lose that trust, verbal commitswould decommit and notre dame would completely losethat trust which charlie and his staff and notre dame haverebuilt with so many years and hours of tireless work that noone else on thisplanet would ever do.
    18. these are among the many reasons why te decision tokeep charlie and his staff have alresdy beenmade by the people with that power and whyjack swarbrick willhave to move up the publicannouncement.
    GO IRISH!!!

  19. Erik - Nov 19, 2009 at 10:24 AM

    Fact: Navy’s recruits are athletically inferior to ND’s recruits on both sides of the ball. (no one can argue this)
    Fact: Navy has beaten ND 2 of last 3 with inferior athletes and inferior recruits.
    Opinion: Charlie Weis CAN get recruits, but either can’t develop them, can’t win with them, or both. The latter is the result of the first. IMO, it’s a coaching problem.

  20. Larry - Nov 19, 2009 at 10:51 AM

    Terrible recruiting for D front seven first few years. Still not getting 5 star D- linemen like Fla. and Bama. Game plans are horrendous and half time adjustments missing. Coaching staff is mediocre at best. Need a new broom to sweep clean , that is if AD can get it right which has not happened since Holtz was hired.

  21. Larry - Nov 19, 2009 at 10:59 AM

    Quit bloviating,no one is reading your dissertations, like watching paint dry.Save it for the classroom.

  22. ND Blade - Nov 19, 2009 at 11:04 AM

    Listen I am a hugh ND fan and have been for many years. This year has not gone as planned. But for everyone to blame Charlie is nuts.First thing is Charlie is not on the field playing. Charlie didn;t fumble at the goal line or throw a pass of the recievers back that was intercepted at the 3 yr line. Charlie didn’t miss 2 field goals. ND could witha little better defense and without some injuries could very well be un-defeated. They have been in every game and have fought hard each game.I beleive that is a good sign of how a coach is doing. These are kids for crying out loud they will make mistakes. Our defense has been a let down form last year. Mabye a new defensive coach or he needs 1 more year for the defense to get it right. I hope that ND brings Charlie back and Jimmy, Golden, Floyd and the rest come back because they have the weopons to make a huge run next year… Go Irish your sill #1 to me.

  23. bolsh10 - Nov 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM

    If Charlie Weis is the greatest thing since sliced bread, why has Notre Dame lost to Navy 2 of the past 3 years? ND has better players, right?
    In 2007 Delaware beat Navy and Temple beat Navy this year. Do Delaware and Temple recruit better than ND too? It looks a lot like coaching to me.

  24. IndianaJoe - Nov 19, 2009 at 1:58 PM

    You are watching a different ND team than I. The offense is pathetic. The only reason it does anything at all is because it has All American quality players in some of the skill positions. Even then they don’t produce until late in games. Remember the 5 field goals in the Washington, or Washington St. game? That was all, I repeat all play selection.
    He has absolutely no skill seeing potential in any position, other than QB. The team plays flat. Worst of all, they are usually not prepared and there are never adjustments made during the game, or at halftime. You might not remember Dave Casper, but he was one of the best TE’s ever to play for ND. In his Soph year he was a guard, Junior year as a tackle. During the year he moved to TE and stayed there until he graduated. When have you ever seen Weis do that?
    ND fans have made a lot of excuses over the past several years for losing. High academic standards, the weather are just two. BULL to that. ND has the best “farm system” and recruiting network in the country. Every kid playing football for a St. this, or Holy that had ND fed to them every day. Take a look at the roster. ND is a great school to attend for many reasons. What it is not at this point, and hasn’t been since Holtz left, is a hot bed for NFL ready players. It used to be. Why. Fundamentals, discipline, and playing with intensity are all lacking. Look at Lou’s and Ara’s teams. They had all these qualities in spades. And they won.
    Can Charlie the Tuna

  25. IndianaJoe - Nov 19, 2009 at 2:32 PM

    And one more thing, this is directed and ND, its AD and Head Coach.
    I have been a fan (maybe the best there is) since the late 50’s when my cousin was a student there and would bring my ND sweatshirts. I have loved and admired the school and football program for the honor they demonstrated and their willingness to do the right thing, regardless. The AD and school leaders have dropped the ball big time on making fair and timely decisions regarding the program. The only time they did act quickly was with Ty, and while I’m sure it was the right decision in the long run, to was not fair, nor was it handled well. Weis should have been fired last year, and failing that, should be notified now that his tenure is over. They, unfortunately, couldn’t make a decision if their lives depended on it. It’s a shame that they don’t realize that a fair number of the players on the team had aspirations of playing in the NFL (if they had 5 or 6 guys drafted each year that would be 20 to 24 guy playing for ND right now), and when you consider that only 1 or two from last years team did get drafted, then 15 to 20 guys have put their faith in the ND football program and have been let down. That is a life altering betrayal. AD wake up!!!
    As for Weis, he is disgusting. If he is an alum who truly loved the school, he would resign and take his millions already earned and walk away. Not him though. He will hold on as long as he can. In the meantime the players are given the short end of the stick and the fans are frustrated.
    Charlie, do the right thing, and if you can’t figure out what that is, ask, there are plenty of people out there who would gladly tell you.
    Got to go take a blood pressure pill!!!

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