If you aren't ready to indict Weis, what DO you think the Irish need to do to improve? Exactly what is their problem?

first keith let me thank you for your thoughts on notre dame football. without your blog ive no one to vent to.
1,red zone offense killed the irish..blame weiss, why? 1st and goal at the 2yd line and you out weigh your opponent by 50lb a man and you cant pound the ball 4 times, if needed?
2,because we get floyd back the majority of formations are spread with jimmie in the shotgun. why not the pro set, grind the running game and use play-action off of it. you control the ball and move the defense up to the line of scrimmage, opening the passing lanes. is it any wonder tate had 1 catch for 5yds in the first half.
3,the defense laid an egg? yes, they have big problems but giving up 21pts with the type of offensive talent that nd has should have been good enough for a victory
4,navy executed their game plan? in other words they out-coached notre dame today
5,notre dame has notre dame to blame for what could have been? your quote, "im not ready to indict charlie weiss like others likly will, but its tough to watch notre dame do everything they can to lose close football games" end quote. it was the players who have saved charlie weiss in the close games that the've "pulled out". the close games they have lost has been on charlie weiss. ex. the sc game with 4sec left instead of coming up with one play, he tells jimmy to look for tate on the slant and if its not there throw it away, with 4secs left hes banking that there will be enough time for one more play.
ex. the wash game he tries to run out the clock with a 4pt lead and 6min and 48sec left in the game. the defense bails him out with THREE turnovers in the final 6min.
i could go on and on all the way back 3yrs ago. while you are not ready to indict mr weiss, i respect your position, those of us who are have serious ammo for the position we take.

Charlie has the ability to be a good college coach but the mistake he made was starting his head coaching career at ND. This is Faust all over again. He may have had a chance at a solid college career with a good program but he chose the pressure cooker of ND. Charlie made the same mistake. Everyone who makes the leap to the next level does a little learning on the job over the first several years. Unfortunately, at ND or any other big time program there is no room for error. It is time to cut ties with Charlie. Go back to the plan that has always worked for them. Find a coach who has been successful at more than one
program and give him the helm with a talented team. Also find someone who puts an emphasis on getting the beefy OLine and DLine guys that have made LSU, Bama, etc... so successful. I have never understood how an ex Parcells and Bellicheck guy does not recruit studs on the O and D line. Bottom line: Fire Weis and end this experiment.

Charlie Weis is constantly being outcoached game after game. His playcalling and clock management is just plain baffeling too often and the defense seems to regress rather than improve. These kids deserve get a coaching staff that gives them the best chance to win and improve every week. And they dont seem to have that in Charlie Weis. When you have a huge talent advantage in college football you are expected to win and win big like Florida and USC are accustomed to doing. Enough is enough with this overpaid chump named Charlie Weis.

I couldnt agree more with dan e. The 1st and goal play calling from the 2 yard line was horrific. Hughes is a north south runner, and like dan said, we had a huge size advantage over their D-line and we run it to the outside? If you are going to run it outside atleast use a runner that showed he could put on some moves and give ND a better change of getting in the end zone. Every time Riddick touched the ball he ran for atleast 5 yards, yet we only gave him 5 touches. Its quite obvious that we either had a bad game plan or we abandoned the game plan way too soon.

I,m not venting I'm just frustrated. I haven't coached in 20 years but I still remember haw to stop the Triple Option. Guess why no one runs it anymore? Because if you put 8 defenders in the box it doesn't work. I understand that isn't Notre Dames base defense, but it used to be. I remember when ND had the likes of Alan Page and the ND "44" defense caused opponents nightmares.
The solution is sumple either drop Navy from the schedule or commit to running a different defense for one week during the year. It's not like it would cause this defense to stumble, they struggle every week and I can't understand that either, there is a ton of athletic talent on that side of the ball. I know at my age I don't X & O like I used to, but I certainly couldn't do any worse than what I am seeing. Maybe Notre Dame should start venerating the Lady on the Dome instead of presidents who support pagan behavior like abortion. It's clear to me that Notre Dame ain't what it used to be. The danger is I'm starting not to care anymore.

I see absolutely nothing positive about keeping Charlie Weis as head coach.Fire him at end of the season and hire Jon Gruden.

Sully, that 8-in-the-box idea is just novel. I'm sure that the 15 teams that have lost to Georgia Tech and Navy this season would love to hear about how 8-in-the-box is THE way to stop the Triple Option. If only one of them would have tried it....

sully, i concur, its very frustrating. i like our kids and for the faults they have, i wouldnt trade em for any player in the ncaa. they have the heart and talent. i dont think its a stretch to think that the coaching staff are falling short

first half offensive play calling was like we were playing a top d team...this game will cause weiss not to be back next year ...if you wanted to lose the game you could not have called a better first half of offensive plays

5 things i learned...
1.how good i thought nd coaches were coaching up the players each week to get better and better before we went to the bcs...oops my bad guys big misconception i was fooled...
2.how i thought jon tenuta had seen every option known to man mistake number 2...
3.how i thought that nd had fight and was tough enough to keep a team much smaller and less talented than us from comin onto our turf and physically out play us to start the game that was the third mistake...
4.thinking that finally weis would one of these weeks give riddick more pt with hughes being unable to punch the ball in within the 5 yd line and also give some other players like goody some pt also or maybe filer on defense beacause i saw lb b. smith miss a lot of open tackles not just this week either but weis is the same old book week after week year after year because me sittin at home watching the game i know exactly what weis will call down after down and i guess thats my bad too...

Keith:

I, too, have to get after you for your comments about not being ready to indict Weis. In fact, you said at the beginning of your piece that,"Notre Dame absolutely killed themselves in the red zone, using a baffling mix of illogical play-calling....." Who do you think is calling those plays? Combine his illogical play calling with the poor clock mgmt we've seen over these last couple of years and its a no brainer.

I suggested to you that one of your 5 points learned should be that the University has officially formed the Search Committee to Replace Weis. I read the AP article where CW is quoted as saying something to the effect that he's unfortunately under the microscope week after week in this job. Well, you know he's getting a lot of dough for being there and he just hasn't produced much. No signature win....his signature "game" is a loss to USC in 2005. He doesn't beat ranked opponents, etc. etc. How long would NBC keep you if you were their highest paid sports reporter and just occasionally phoned in a mediocre piece? This guy gets paid more money than Urban Meyer yet he isn't close to being in the same league.

Don't feel sorry for Weis, he can cash in on that 10 year extension money (the Kevin White project) and laugh all the way to the bank. This school needs to get serious about a good coach. Pay the bucks to lure Meyer away from UF, you know they have it. That campus bookstore does over $1 mil gross for one home game alone. Meyer will come, he's a devout Catholic, loves the school, has expressed a desire to coach there and despite his recent protestations to the contrary, I think he would come.

The fear is that we lose our best recruiter in Weis. Do you think Meyer wouldn't be able to recruit with 2 (or 3) BCS Championship rings? He seems to be doing ok in that department. Speaking of recruiting, where do you think Navy's last 3 classes have ranged? Probably not even close to the top 20 yet they came into ND's house and kicked ass. Navy's entrance requirements are even more stringent than ND, so don't use that age-old lame excuse that we can't get good players. Aside from the true superstar athlete, all the guys at this level can play ball on a relatively equal plane and some can even get up for the big game and play beyond their capabilities. Why can't ND?

Merry Christmas....where's the Tylenol.

Yours truly,
Art

5.last but certainly not least is my feelings and how i feel about nd and i know this is after a tough loss that i am typing this but i cant take these close games anymore and at first i thought it was a good thing to be in those close games after the nevada game thinking it would only make us battle tested in looking ahead towards a possible bcs berth but i came up short and realized that my expectations for this irish team was too high and that maybe we are not as good as we think we are and that we are not heading in the right direction with this coach although i love hime as a person and everyone on the team.i will forever be nd true and through but im with sully on this one i aM REALLY STARTING NOT TO CARE ANYMORE!

amen art!

HEY ART...
U THINK MAYBE AT HALFTIME OF THE PITT GAME WHEN WE ARE GET BLOWN OUT OR MAYBE AFTER THE GAME WHEN WE ARE DONE ALMOST WINNING OR LOSING THE GAME U CAN SET UP AN INFOMERCIAL STATING THE FACTS OF THE STATE OF OUR BELOVED PROGRAM?

uget, im to the point where i still care and always will, but almost want to see notre dame fail so as to get rid of weiss. to this point in weiss's tenure his grade would be an "F". winning out the rest of the way and getting to another non bcs bowl game could probably bring his gpa to a "D+

DAN E THATS WHAT I AM AFRAID OF ALSO IS WINNING OUT AND SEEING CHARLEY STAY A COUPLE OF YEARS TOO LONG THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING.DONT GET ME WRONG I WOULD NEVER WISH FOR THE IRISH TO LOSE.

if swarbrick doesn't move quickly it means nd is going to settle for the mediocrity of the past 20 years. charlie busts his tail recruiting but can not coach a major program.
Maybe they should should fire charlie and hire obama since they love him so much. the golden dome is becoming more tarnished every day.

MIKEYV NO DISRESPECT BUR THE GOLDEN DOME ISNT TARNISHED OR BECOMING TARNISHED...ITS US THE FANS WHO ARE BECOMING TARNISHED OR SHOULD I SAY HAVE BEEN TARNISHED FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS SINCE WEIS TOOK OVER "WILLINGHAMS" KIDS.

mikeyv....agree about moving quickly, but cw busting his tail recruiting? i dont think so, a salesman he is and the product being notre dame university helps bigtime. charlies problem is that he cant put his "will" on the team cause its all a sell job with nothing to back it up with.
also, what kind of a broad statement is the weiss/obama love him so much thing? take it to a political board

I have supported Weiss through the worst of times. No more. I am done with Weiss' teams. I will not watch or attend another ND game until Weiss is fired or resigned. Weiss rarely prepares the team mentally or emotionally. It is a shame for these great athletes. Watch a replay of one of Holtz' game...you rarely will see the mental miscues that are now expected from a Weiss team. If Weiss really cares more about ND than his own ego, he should resign and accept a position as assistant A.D. in charge of football operations/recruiting/compliance. He simply is not ready and may never be ready to be a top-tier head coach.

Let's cut our losses and do some due diligence before making the next hire.

dan e, if you can't see the parallel, i can't help. ND used used to stand for traditional values on and off the field. not anymore

Come on robertg, I can't wait much longer!

Urban Meyer will not come here. Let's forget about that, but you need are people with football smarts too help search for the next coach not board members, if that's what the university want's to do is make a change.

IM SORRY GUS BUT I THINK U ALL MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE...EXCEPT THE GUY WHO TYPED IN GRUDENS NAME...WE NEED NFL TOUGHNESS PERIOD MUST I SPELL IT OUT 4EVRYONE.

I THINK WE ALSO NEED SOME HELP EITHER FROM THE E.R. OR SOMEONE TO CONDITION AND TRAIN OUR PLAYERS TO GET STRONGER BECAUSE OUR GUYS ARE DROPPING LIKE FLIES DONT U THINK...THOUGH I DID SEE AN AWFUL LOT OF GOOD PLAYERS GO DOWN TODAY.

I THINK WE ALSO NEED SOME HELP EITHER FROM THE E.R. OR SOMEONE TO CONDITION AND TRAIN OUR PLAYERS TO GET STRONGER BECAUSE OUR GUYS ARE DROPPING LIKE FLIES DONT U THINK...THOUGH I DID SEE AN AWFUL LOT OF GOOD PLAYERS GO DOWN TODAY.

I feel shell shocked and numb at this point - probably the same for the vast majority of true ND fans, and very likely the Irish players. I just don't know what to think and hope that time, reading, and reflection will help put the season in perspective.

The 3 loses have been heart wrenching - we were never blown out and we could absolutely have won each - reason for belief and fuel for frustration. The talent is finally in place (and with depth), and it feels like we're just one small item or twist away - the brass ring just out of reach. I don't know enough about football to judge whether time management and play selection for the entire games (not just some selected plays) is as bad as some would have us believe. Under Davie, Willingham, Faust I never felt that we were even close...I remember feeling that too many things were beyond fixing and getting worse.

Execution wise today, Charlie & staff did not fumble twice inside the 5 yard line, have a pass bounce off their back (and cursedly high and into the defenders hands), miss 2 chip shot field goals, blow blocks with only a 3-4 man rush resulting in a 2 pt safety, etc. , etc. "Could Haves": Jimmy goes out of bounds or down after making the 1st down instead of risking injury & fumble, Floyd makes the catch in the end when a miracle is needed,.....

Yet, with Navy playing error free ball, and with the Irish shooting themselves in the foot time after time, we still had a chance right to the final seconds. The Navy players are talented athletes not 2nd class slugs, play hard & with heart, and yes came damn close to beating OSU - Temple notwithstanding.

The frustration makes me physically sick as I type; but I'm not ready to give up on Charlie and this team...and the future recruits that have and will commit to ND. Call me nuts, but I feel that we've come very, very far from the days of Davie and Willingham coaching. I sense that we're very much closer to being elite than mediocre and so very close to our next NC. I just hope that the frustration of we fans feel doesn't spill over to the recruits and players - and destroy the future that can be.

I trace the last "20 years of mediocrity" cited above to the decisions, thinking, politics, image seeking, whatever, that inspired ND to railroad Lou Holtz out of town; and Joe Moore shortly thereafter. Our program hadn't been the same since; and was unable to evolve as the college game evolved around us. Recently under Charlie & Co., I feel that we have a reason to believe that we will be among the elite programs in this new era of college football. Much more importantly, I observe that the quality recruits coming to us believe the same.

Don't give up, believe,...pray. "you get what you ask for" as the above screen name says.

Jan '69

Shame on the coaches and team for losing this game. There is no excuse! There is NO EXCUSE for this loss. this team and coaches need to play up to their ability or do everyone a favor and stay home the rest of the year. Enough is Enough!!!!!!!!!!!

I would have to say this loss sums up Charlie's career/resume at ND. Horrific. Charlie has never beaten USC, loses to Syracuse last year, and loses to Navy at HOME... TWICE! And all this talk of ND and BCS? WHY? So they can get pummeled like they did when they played Ohio St. or LSU? Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard ND fan, and want nothing more than to see them win every game, but lets be realistic. ND doesn't have the coaching or the talent to compete with the "big" teams. (i.e. most SEC teams, USC, Texas, Ohio St. or anyone in the top 10). The offense can move the ball, but the play calling is baffling at points in the game. The defense can't stop anyone. If you can put 21 pts. up, then your defense should be able to hold the opponent to less than that. End of story. Week in and week out the defense is giving up the big play. 3rd and 16. 4th and 23. Giving up plays like that week in and week out is unexcusable. If you ask me, ND needs to concentrate on recruiting some 4 and 5 star defensive players the next couple of seasons. Not to mention getting a defensive coach.

Many congratulations to the Middies, and thanks for showing the Irish how football is supposed to be played. Coaches seem not to be able to

The biggest indictment of the Weis Era is that a few Navy players were interviewed after the game and they weren't even that excited about beating ND. They were treating it just like any other game. 2 years ago they beat us and it was a big deal. This year, no big deal. That is a drastic and ominous change in attitude on the part of one of our perennial opponents. It means that mediocrity has already crept into this program. It is clearly time to reorganize.

Charlie Weis has to go. He is at his point of mediocrity. He has NO hope of improving his coaching skills, which has already reached the top of his tank. Charlie cannot transcend, he has to go.

Does anyone know what it would cost the university to replace Weis? I know that Meyer said that Notre Dame would be his dream job, but would he ever leave Florida to coach the Irish? If the Irish can't get Meyer, which I suspect they can't, is Jon Gruden really the answer in South Bend? Is he a better coach? I know he won a Super Bowl, but didn't he achieve success in the same way that Weis did with Willingham's players? After all, he coach Tony Dungy's team to a Super Bowl victory. I'm not trying to make excuses or say that Weis deserves to stay. I'm part of the vocal majority who say that the Irish need someone better. But, I'm afraid of the repercussions of dismissing him. Would we lose recruits much in the same way that the Memphis basketball team did when Calipari left for Kentucky? Would there be a long rebuilding period where we are unable to bring in adequate recruits? I know that these are a lot of questions, but I'm tired of saying "There's always next year". If we make a coaching change, it needs to be the right one, or "next year" could be many years away.

I agree with Dayton, I don't think Gruden is the answer, and Meyer will not leave Florida to go to ND. He was offered the job before it was offered to Weis. He turned it down to go to Florida. I think ND needs a coach that has been in the college ranks for a while. I think ND needs to take a serious look at Cincinnati's coach. You can't deny that he has turned that program around, and done something amazing with what he started with.

Thanks TJ. I guess I don't necessarily believe that Gruden would be a bad fit. I'm just trying to think of who would be the best fit. I used to play football, but I've never coached it, and coaching college football at the Div. 1 level is probably one of the most difficult things to do. There are so many things to consider: 1) Who can we bring in that will attract top ten recruiting classes on a yearly basis?, 2) Who can we bring in that will teach the fundamentals of sound, mistake-free football on a weekly basis?, and 3) Is there anyone out there that can do both? I guess a lot of people think of Gruden because of he's expressed interest in Notre Dame, and he's also a big name. Recruits would know of him from his years in the pros. That would help with recruiting, but bringing in the talent is only part of the process. In the pros, a team with as many as 6 to 7 losses can make the playoffs and possibly win a championship. There isn't that margin of error in the college game. That might be Weis' downfall, and it could be Gruden's as well if we bring him in. I agree that the Irish need a coach who has made a name for himself in the college game (at some point in his career), so potential recruits can identify with someone they trust. And getting an established college coach will ensure that the university will have someone who understands the importance of mistake-free football every week. No let downs. These are my ramblings. If anyone knows of a candidate that fits this description. Please let me know.

Don't be so quick to dismiss Meyer. His buyout is ridiculously low and that had to be negotiated that way for a reason. He is at a point in his compensation where a public university (with taxpayers to answer to) can't really go that much higher. He's proven himself at Bowling Green, Utah and UF in a short amount of time. Ego alone says why wouldn't he want the most prestigious job in college football to come in and be its savior? He's won championships, now its time to create a legacy, to become a major part of the most storied program ever. To have that bronze statue next to Rockne. You think he doesn't want that? I think there is a better than average shot we get him.

They already said it...Brian Kelly

Three compelling factors I forgot to mention on the Urban Meyer question:

#1 - he didn't want the job before the Weis hiring because he knew the cupboard was bare from Willingham's abysmal recruiting effort. He simply saw that he had a better chance of success at Florida. That cupboard is stocked now and life is all about the timing.

#2 - Meyer loses Tebow after this season. How good are the Gators gonna be?

#3 - He is still calling ND his dream job, pretty recently in fact.

I would not be surprised if Swarbrick has some ND alum lawyer/benefactor in Gainsville already talking to him. Who's with me?

They already said it...Brian Kelly

no way, Art. Meyer is perfectly content at UF. If CW is replaced, it will have to be someone else.
Man i'm still steaming at this loss. Over 450 yrds on offense, and still the Irish lose?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't want Urban Meyer at Notre Dame. He accepts thugs as a matter of course (exhibit A is Brandon Spikes). He's not what ND is about.

I just don't know who would replace Charlie. If he wins out, he is still likely back. If he loses two out of three (entirely possible given how deflated this team likely is), he's gone. I'm not convinced that the guy at Cincinnati is the answer.

good grief man, Charlie didnt fumble near the goal line, miss 2 gimme field goals, or get caught in the endzone for a safety. At some point, these elite players have to actually execute.

Defense didnt lose the game, lack of performance on offense did.

i like what you had to say and i to believe we are close to returning to glory. Yes we got out coached but to get rid of Weis, who in the world do we think is going to come to ND. If we fire charlie, then i think recruiting suffers, the majority of returning letterman for next year, will be starting over with a new offense and so forth. I still think we are 1 year away. Yes charlie and company can do a much better job of coaching, especially Tenuta, i thought he was suppossed to be so great. Our defense has been awful all year. Yes Riddick needs to play more, get him on the field. I was suprised to see Floyd play so much, he's still a little rusty. I don't understand how we can't score in the red zone. I just don't see other coaches knocking down the door to coach in southbend. if you who read this do then please tell me, Realistically. Meyers had a chance to come and he went to Florida- why would he leave there- for $$, i don't think so

Fire CW NOW, why wait until the end of the season. ND can't do any worse if they get rid of the fatso and only use the assistants.

When they hired Charlie W. , I was afraid that he'd turn out to be another Joe Kuharick! I'm afraid that my worst nightmare just came true.

Every week there is handwringing and over analysis of yet another disappointing performance by Notre Dame. And the one constant seems to be the coaching. How can a team with this much talent on both sides of the ball either lose or win closely over what should be outmanned opponents? I'm not sure it's the coaching, at least not just the coaching. When was the last time Notre Dame had a season when their offensive and defensive lines dominated their opponents and the line of scrimmage. I really think it has not been since the Holtz era. ND does not tackle rushers behind the lines for losses. Almost every team can run the ball against ND. There has not been a defensive line that penetrates to the backfield and puts pressure on the QB. Without blitzing by linebackers of safeties every QB has time. And blitzing leaves receivers open, especially in soft man-to-man coverage. On offense ND has some talent at QB, receivers, even running backs. But the o-line is not a line that has a punishing attack up front. Remember this is a team that cannot guard a lead late in the game by running out the clock.
Every team makes mistakes in a game. Every team has turnovers. But a good team has the athletic strength to take over the lines of scrimmage and make sure it does not lose that game. Just look at the performance of USC against ND in the last decade. It's not just that Pete Carroll is a superior coach, but his players, especially on the lines, are superior athletes. Is a team like Navy superior athletically? To use an Army term: in the trenches, yes!

I'm sad to say that I now think it is time for Weis to go. He does so many things right as the coach of Notre Dame. He's a good man, who recruits great kids, that make it easy to be proud of the University. Unfortunately, it is now, after 5yrs. becoming obvious that, he is unable to put all the pieces together to put this program back among the elite. Two things that stick out to me are 1: his inability, even with this veteran offensive line, to be productive in short yardage situations.(running Hughes wide, on 1st and goal from the 2???) 2: this porous defense, 23 pts not so bad, but how many times did Navy make it on 3rd and plus 5yds.? 6 or 7+ times? more?. These are not new problems this year. But they don't get fixed. They are also basic tennants of winning football. Weis is either unable to fix these issues or, thinks them not to be of enough significance to fix. My question to anyone who can still defend Weis would be, If (insert coach here,Saban, Meyer, Stoops, Beamer, Kelly, Tressel,etc) had been our coach the last two years, with this talent, do you think we would have lost this game? Even if this team had turned out to be more successful this season, there would still be some questions to be aswered as far as this program is concerned. (Who's playing qb next yr? and who's the backup qb?) If Clausen doesn't come back, it's going to be a rebuilding year either way. It's time to get a new coach. Sorry Charlie!

@ "a few Navy players were interviewed after the game and they weren't even that excited about beating ND. They were treating it just like any other game."

It's not about disrespecting ND at all. What most people don't really understand is that after seven straight years of program success, the Navy players and coaches show up expecting to win - even against Ohio State, Notre Dame, Wake Forest, Temple, and the rest. Beating the 43 year jinx in 2007 was a huge mental hurdle for the program. Although they may often be undersized man for man, they know they are athletic, extremely well conditioned to play a full 60 minutes, disciplined in their assignments, and can run the triple otion with great success. The defense flies to the ball. Does that mean they are going to win every one of these tough-to-win games? No. But they think they can, and that edge allows Navy to successfully compete at this level. I'm hoping the program can sustain the success, and look forward to many more great games with Notre Dame.

good grief man, its weiss body of work over the last 4yrs that i state my opinion over. sorry you see it differently.

Sully,

I'm a former coach like you, & like you, I too remember coaching against the Triple Option attacks of the 70s. We all stopped using it back then bacause it was so easy to stop with the 4-4 & the 5-2 defenses. Crashing the ends on the QBs & sending the OLBs on the pitch man with the tackle & ILBs handling the dive back.

Unfortunately, my wife & I watch Navy & GT get all that success because no one remembers how to defend it. They are all locked into the mindset that the kids can only play one base defense, & one goal line defense. Frankly, I think that's hogwash. I, like you, feel that they could change up, AT LEAST for Navy & go back to OUR old defenses. Stop them cold!

Also, did you notice Navy's line splits in the first half??? LOL Charlie & the announcers NEVER caught it. I noticed that they FINALLY CAUGHT on in the 2nd half & Navy went back to regular line splits. GEEZ talk about an OLD TRICK of the triple option attack...LOL.

Yeah, Weis & Co is pretty pitiful. I'm with you Sully all the way. You & I could coach the heck out of these kids, offense & defense. We wouldn't make those same mistakes in the red zone, that's for sure!

On the Urban Meyer question: NEVER! I would NEVER have Meyer as coach at ND. He USED us when he was going for the job at Florida. Why do you think we dumped Willingham so fast? He flirted with us to make Florida commit faster. He didn't want us and he used us to get the Florida job. He didn't care if we ended up with egg on our face & made us look stupid. MEYER AT THE DOME...NEVER! He only goes places where the recruiting has been done FOR him...like Zook did at Florida. Or Weis did here. He's a USER...not a TEACHER! Meyer should NEVER be mentioned in the same sentence with ND EVER!

If we need to look, we should seek out the Boise State coach. HE CAN WIN!!!! That's the coach we need to bring on board. He's been winning there for YEARS & beaten NAME programs like Oklahoma, Oregon, etc. BOISE STATE COACH for ND.

i say AMEN to that. Tate 1 catch in the bfirst half, Charlie get your act together and resign

I do believe(again) its time to make a change . Charlie recruits OK but is a lousey head coach. I would love to see Gruden in South Bend.Young,dynamic and a taskmaster.

Navy has a bunch of none scholarship athletes. None of there players will be in the NFL in fact some will be dead because they got shipped off to war. Our Heisman hopefull, Tate, Floyd, and Rudoff lost not once, but twice in three years to a team with zero NFL prospects. The have less talent than many D1 AA programs!

Offense scores points and Defense wins championships.

Seriously is Charlie paying you to type this? Are you watching the same ND team I'm watching? ND is lucky to not be 2-7 right now. The game winning last second TD against Purdue was a miracle. We were lucky to hold off Michigan State, and Washington should have won but the refs blew some calls to give the game to us. This team is nowhere near the elite and will never be with Charlie coaching. The talent level is there, the coaching is not. And don't forget USC should have blown us out once again if it were not for their defense relaxing at the end of the game.

A team takes on the personality of it's Coach.Charlie Weis a great human being..except for his arrogance.Navy exposed the deficiency in the Notre Dame football team.Absolute toughness.Not on every other play ,not on some plays,not when the game is on the line but on EVERY play.When your QB and wide receivers are your toughest guys you have a problem.There is no excuse for what is happening and one should not be made.The fact they are in close games is because these kids are so talented,the fact they lose them is because they are not prepared.Please do not make excuses for the defense.these are supposed to be bright kids as well as athletic you can't teach them a "Scheme" to stop the option.How about tackling the pitch guy the QB and string it out to the sideline.We all talk about the quality of recruit that comes to Notre Dame and I'm all for that.What about the quality of Coach who comes here and doesn't deliver.The defensive Coaches should be embarrassed for the game preparedness,they bring on Saturday!

Domer, what's your point?

How do you know 'none of these players will be in the NFL'? Kyle Eckel, recent USNA player, is playing RB for the Saints. Eric Kettani, Shun White, and Tyree Barnes have all signed free agent contracts with the Patriots.

My point is that football is a team sport, and not a sport played by 22 individual studs. If you want to win consistently, it takes leadership and teamwork, and that's the #1 point in having a Naval Academy. While ND has a bunch of "scholarship athletes", the Naval Academy produces warriors. By the way, every Midshipman is on a full ride 'scholarship' that they have to compete for, including the athletes. Of course, there is a payback... no free lunches there.

All the recruiting in the world cant save charlie... if it could he would have done it by now. By now i mean he would have beat a ranked opponent and not have lost so many games as a ranked team to inferior competition. Talent needs good coaching to succeed furthermore someone whose going to prepare nd to take any and every teams best shot because no matter who is on the schedule whether it is michigan or western michigan we will get their best shot and i really would hate losing to non traditional powers ie western michigan tulsa utah. So what, we gonna wait until next year to fire weis? Does anyone actually think jimmy and tate will be back next year after taking so many lumps and bruises this year furthermore losing quite a few lineman who couldnt even keep jimmy from getting sacked in crucial situations ie end of games

Like most ND fans who have commented on yesterday's debacle, I'm also disturbed. But I was disturbed before this game. Even when we won, the defense has not played well and the play calling and clock management have been terrible. I'm having a difficult time figuring out just how really talented our players are on the defensive side. It is clear there has been no week-to-week improvement: the tackling is consistently awful, the schemes predictable and the db's look lost and clueless. It has been the same story for the last five years under the current coaching staff. In the glory years, pre-Willingham, Weiss, I could name most of our defensive linemen just from hearing their names called by announcers ....now it is rare when one hears their names being mentioned during a game, they make so few plays. It sure appears to be a coaching meltdown, given the kids playing were all top rated recruits out of high school. Whether or not a coaching change is made, one thing is certain. It will be awhile before the Irish get back into the college football elite no matter which way the AD goes. And if this current coaching staff can't produce quick results, it could get really ugly at Pitt and Stanford. Oh, and BTW, Connecticut may be better than Navy.

Its not gonna get any better this year. Prepare for minimum 1 more loss, most likely 2. I see this team folding now there is no big reason to play this year. What bowl can we get pumped for this year? Michelin bowl? Time is running out for Notre Dame. Clausen and Tate will leave this year, expect to see decommitments, especially from big time defensive recruit Chris Martin. Time to rebuild the coaching staff because this is the best its going to get with Weis. There is no excuse. All americans at the skill positions with a senior OL and you can't beat Navy? If anyone is still defending Weis its time you take a look at reality.

could not agree with you more about the defensive coaches. However, players still need to make plays. By the way, what happen to jonas gray, james aldridge, and theo riddick? How can this line not be able to knock back a line it outweighs by 50 plus pounds. Are these players really as good as they are hyped to be? On both sides of the ball?

I could not agree anymore with you...MONTANA we were selling ourselves short by thinking that all these close games we've played this year is a sign of good things to come. When you look at our opponents overall records ie michigan we should be blowing some of these teams out. USC is more scared of playing in outzen stadium/state of oregon than they are to face us in south bend. Maybe we should move to the alamo dome because everyone else uses south bend as a home and that hurts me more than just losing.

TJ's comment sums it up best -you're right on. Nice guy but not a head coach. ND continues to think they are elite --I'm sorry top recruits no longer want to come here -until they loosen up the requirements -we will be average.

What I saw was a team totally unprepared mentally and physically to play this game. It was like they hadn't even practiced, and just thought they had the game before it started. Before the season all we heard from Weiss was how we "had to have" a running game. Well, guess what we don't have. I feel bad for the players, and especially Claussen. He could've played for many other colleges with better programs and been a lead contender for the Heisman, but all he's getting is battered and beaten up. He'd better go pro now before he's maimed for life.

Before all you Irish commit suicide over a loss to Navy. keep in mind that the Midshipmen are not just another third-tier team. In their three losses, Navy was drubbed only by Pitt. Navy fought Ohio State and Temple down to the wire and were never out of those games. It's not all on Notre Dame's head for losing the game. They got beat by a good Navy team. Give some credit where it's due.

irish fans - your team sucks. you have sucked for the last 10 years. you have a loyal following of idiots and thus, you get special treatment. do we really need a headline that says your BCS chances were eliminated? did you really think you were BCS worthy? when was the last time you actually won a game against a good football team? i am so glad you lost (again) at home against Navy. Navy! Your team is terrible, your coach is terrible and you are all morons for thinking you have a right to BCS games, top 25 rankings etc simply because you won some games 20 years ago. Get over yourselves and earn something instead of whining about how you deserve this and that. You make me sick.

I will say these things today with - a VERY sad heart. Charlie Weis Is The Head Coach of MY BELOVED NOTRE DAME FIGHTING IRISH football team and I love him for what he stands for and does! I feel so torn as to what to do I'm not completely for either side when it comes to Charlie, although I do believe something needs to happen. Is there any way we can keep him and use him for recruiting and schematic purposes? We are definitely at a crossroads and I'm (to say the least) worried as to what the future holds for this team....with him or without him! I hope all those who are the decision makers into this very difficult process take this as serious as death itself. Because the slightest mistake in this situation could bring death to our storied programs prestige and excellence, for Charlie... The reason he should stay is as great as the reason he should leave. In my eyes the head coach of Notre Dame should be the most coveted head football coaching positions in the land, and for great reason.
Charlie Weis I need you to answer; Is this where we should be, is this the excellence you have strived for, are we close to national prominence, or is this storied program putting off the same vibe in it's actual greatness as it does in the lore of us.

It is because of the Irish that all college football programs are who they are today. Do some research Notre Dame is the great grandfather of college football... BELIEVE THAT! And As all wise old men will tell you "not only will good things come to those who wait good things come to those who do good things!!"

Another coaching display for the ages...bring back "Lou" for the season to fix the mental part of the game and find us someone new for next year. It may be wrong, but no one could deny it would make a great story...ND needs one.

Weren't we making the same comments about ND back when Gerry Faust was coach. Remember how ND couldn't dominate a team like Air Force despite the fact that we would outweighed their line by about 50 lbs? Seems like nothing has changed in 25 years has it?

Hi all. Charlie Weis is a wonderful guy. He is no longer the arrogant guy I saw when he first came to ND. He has become an approachable coach who the players can come to with their problems. He has changed. God Bless him.

But honest to goodness Jerry Faust was a better high school coach. Oops! Maybe that is Charlie's problem. He should have started at the high school level. A nice Catholic high school like Notre Dame, Sherman Oaks.

Has Charlie ever been a head coach anywhere?

Im not understanding why Im hearing so many fans wanting Gruden he has done nothing it would be the same situation as weis. ND has got to get a proven college coach someone that has won at a big time program its going to cost some money but if they win it will bring in more money. Most of these nfl guys cant coach in college because you have to actually coach these kids and motivate them. I couldnt believe how flat the Irish were before the game against Navy. I watched them in the tunnel before the game and there was no emotion at all they are taking on the personality of there coach.

Irishman42 ....Are you forgetting that Gruden won a Super Bowl with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers(2002).He also led the Oakland Raiders to the AFC championship in(2000) something the Raiders have not come close to since he left.Many NFL coaches never even get to a Super Bowl let alone win it.I also like Gruden's fire and passion as a coach something that the Irish have not had since Lou Holtz.

Charlie's signature win will come next week. The Irish will face what is now a number 8 Pittsburgh team under the lights in prime time. If that were to happen, I wonder if Mark May will talk about how a highly ranked Pittsburgh team was undeserving of the ranking by getting beat by such a lowly team and Wannstedt should be fired.

One thing the rest of the country knew already....ND sucks, will continue to suck and will never , EVER win another National Championship! Come on guys, when you play a 3rd grade schedule and have white guys playing Dbacks, how do you expect to beat a real team with real players??? Navy? Really?

Next week the Irish will tee it up against a #8 ranked Pittsburgh team in prime time, under the lights. Should Charlie get his top 10 signature win then, I wonder if Mark May will be talking about how Pittsburgh has played a weak schedule, is undeserving of the ranking, and Wannstedt should be fired.

thank you len...to add to that he also is a "leader" not asst offensive coordinator from new england...charlie good asst. not head gruden great head coach...only other posssibilities i think should be cincinatti head coach, urban meyer which i doubt, or maybe try pat fitzgerald from north western.

Maybe you would like their schedule better if they scheduled Toleda,Tulsa,Troy,Florida International, University of North Texas, and University of Texas at El Paso like others in the top 10 do.

I love Gruden but I am not sure the administration would gamble on another NFL guy with no college Head Coach experience. Who knows if he can recruit or is willing to put in the travel and time involved in recruiting. I would love to get Paterson of TCU, Petersen of Boise or Kelly of Cincy. ND still offers them something that they will not get where they are which is a chance to be a national championship. An undefeated season for each of them where they are today will never result in a championship or a shot at a championship. A one loss Florida, Bama, Texas or any other SEC or Big 12 team will always get the nod over their undefeated programs. Thus, at some point, they need to consider going to another program that offers them a chance. Even though everyone is down on ND, they still have the name and the schedule to justify a national championship if they go undefeated or even have one loss. The problem with all 3 coaching choices is not that they would not jump at a chance with ND but that you would have to wait until Jan to get any of them since they are all in BCS contention. Thus, you would have a long wait period in which recruits could de-commit and those on the fence would go elsewhere.

Another option which I think is the best option is a guy like Phil Fulmer. He could sign on immediately. Recruits and perhaps Clausen and Tate would love to play for him because he can give them a legit chance at a championship next year. In the back of his mind, Clausen has to be questioning Weis's ability to deliver a National Championship if he did decide to stay. Fulmer is the guy they should choose for the following reasons:
1) He is proven and has delivered a Championship in the toughest conference by far in the last 20 years. His record is amazing even in the last few years of his time in Tenn. Keep in mind that Tenn. not only played the SEC powerhouses each year but they also would always add a ND, UCLA, Cal, etc... to their schedule.
2) He can handle the media pressure that ND brings. If you can handle the fans and media coverage at Tenn, UGA, Florida, Ala, etc..., you can handle ND.
3) He can flat out recruit with the best of them and he sends his guys to the pros which has been a tough sell for ND recently.
4) He wants to coach in the right situation where he has a shot at a Championship because of how things ended at Tenn. He has something to prove. What better place than ND to do that.
5) He can win in any style. He won with Peyton and with Tee Martin two vastly different styles. Unlike most coaches, he adapts his game to the strengths of his players.
6) He could come in right away and calm the waters on the recruiting front. As mentioned above, this will not be the case with the other 3 very strong candidates. In addition, his recruiting skills would probably help ND to nail down guys on the fence with Charlie right now.

I know people are going to say that we should groom our own guy like a Petersen, Paterson or Kelly, who are coming from smaller programs, and not go after someone who will be always identified with Tenn. ND has always failed when they tried to develop their own guy (ie: Weis, Faust, Davies). They have succeeded with bringing in a proven guy like Devine or Holtz. There is too much uncertainty around a coach's ability to handle the pressure of ND if they have not been in a similar environment. There would be no doubt with Fulmer. If only O'Leary did not lie on his resume, ND would have succeeded with this sane approach several years ago. O'Leary was as sound a choice as Fulmer. He is a proven winner. To those who say ND is no longer the marquee program to draw recruits and coaches that they once were, I disagree. It is not a situation where nobody wants to coach here. The issue for ND is that they made horrendous choices on their coaches the last few years. Davies and Weis were the administration's endless hope that they can groom a legend on their own. It was the same ridiculous way of thinking as they had with Faust. It is comical that they actually thought they could groom a high school coach. Ty was a panic move after the O'Leary debacle. He was a mediocre coach at Stanford and never would have gotten the job if they were not in panic mode. These were all bad choices by the administration and not the result of nobody wanting to coach at ND anymore. Just because one coach in Urban turned them down does not mean that nobody wants to coach here anymore. It is still a marquee job in college football. It is just the marquee job it once was.

I love Gruden but I am not sure the administration would gamble on another NFL guy with no college Head Coach experience. Who knows if he can recruit or is willing to put in the travel and time involved in recruiting. I would love to get Paterson of TCU, Petersen of Boise or Kelly of Cincy. ND still offers them something that they will not get where they are which is a chance to be a national championship. An undefeated season for each of them where they are today will never result in a championship or a shot at a championship. A one loss Florida, Bama, Texas or any other SEC or Big 12 team will always get the nod over their undefeated programs. Thus, at some point, they need to consider going to another program that offers them a chance. Even though everyone is down on ND, they still have the name and the schedule to justify a national championship if they go undefeated or even have one loss. The problem with all 3 coaching choices is not that they would not jump at a chance with ND but that you would have to wait until Jan to get any of them since they are all in BCS contention. Thus, you would have a long wait period in which recruits could de-commit and those on the fence would go elsewhere.

Another option which I think is the best option is a guy like Phil Fulmer. He could sign on immediately. Recruits and perhaps Clausen and Tate would love to play for him because he can give them a legit chance at a championship next year. In the back of his mind, Clausen has to be questioning Weis's ability to deliver a National Championship if he did decide to stay. Fulmer is the guy they should choose for the following reasons:
1) He is proven and has delivered a Championship in the toughest conference by far in the last 20 years. His record is amazing even in the last few years of his time in Tenn. Keep in mind that Tenn. not only played the SEC powerhouses each year but they also would always add a ND, UCLA, Cal, etc... to their schedule.
2) He can handle the media pressure that ND brings. If you can handle the fans and media coverage at Tenn, UGA, Florida, Ala, etc..., you can handle ND.
3) He can flat out recruit with the best of them and he sends his guys to the pros which has been a tough sell for ND recently.
4) He wants to coach in the right situation where he has a shot at a Championship because of how things ended at Tenn. He has something to prove. What better place than ND to do that.
5) He can win in any style. He won with Peyton and with Tee Martin two vastly different styles. Unlike most coaches, he adapts his game to the strengths of his players.
6) He could come in right away and calm the waters on the recruiting front. As mentioned above, this will not be the case with the other 3 very strong candidates. In addition, his recruiting skills would probably help ND to nail down guys on the fence with Charlie right now.

I know people are going to say that we should groom our own guy like a Petersen, Paterson or Kelly, who are coming from smaller programs, and not go after someone who will be always identified with Tenn. ND has always failed when they tried to develop their own guy (ie: Weis, Faust, Davies). They have succeeded with bringing in a proven guy like Devine or Holtz. There is too much uncertainty around a coach's ability to handle the pressure of ND if they have not been in a similar environment. There would be no doubt with Fulmer. If only O'Leary did not lie on his resume, ND would have succeeded with this sane approach several years ago. O'Leary was as sound a choice as Fulmer. He is a proven winner. To those who say ND is no longer the marquee program to draw recruits and coaches that they once were, I disagree. It is not a situation where nobody wants to coach here. The issue for ND is that they made horrendous choices on their coaches the last few years. Davies and Weis were the administration's endless hope that they can groom a legend on their own. It was the same ridiculous way of thinking as they had with Faust. It is comical that they actually thought they could groom a high school coach. Ty was a panic move after the O'Leary debacle. He was a mediocre coach at Stanford and never would have gotten the job if they were not in panic mode. These were all bad choices by the administration and not the result of nobody wanting to coach at ND anymore. Just because one coach in Urban turned them down does not mean that nobody wants to coach here anymore. It is still a marquee job in college football. It is just the marquee job it once was.

Isn't it odd and pathetic how these Irish-haters can't stay stay away from the ND websites? They seem to take more satisfaction in ND losing than their alma mater winning(whatever high school that might be).

I love Gruden but I am not sure the administration would gamble on another NFL guy with no college Head Coach experience. Who knows if he can recruit or is willing to put in the travel and time involved in recruiting. I would love to get Paterson of TCU, Petersen of Boise or Kelly of Cincy. ND still offers them something that they will not get where they are which is a chance to be a national championship. An undefeated season for each of them where they are today will never result in a championship or a shot at a championship. A one loss Florida, Bama, Texas or any other SEC or Big 12 team will always get the nod over their undefeated programs. Thus, at some point, they need to consider going to another program that offers them a chance. Even though everyone is down on ND, they still have the name and the schedule to justify a national championship if they go undefeated or even have one loss. The problem with all 3 coaching choices is not that they would not jump at a chance with ND but that you would have to wait until Jan to get any of them since they are all in BCS contention. Thus, you would have a long wait period in which recruits could de-commit and those on the fence would go elsewhere.

Another option which I think is the best option is a guy like Phil Fulmer. He could sign on immediately. Recruits and perhaps Clausen and Tate would love to play for him because he can give them a legit chance at a championship next year. In the back of his mind, Clausen has to be questioning Weis's ability to deliver a National Championship if he did decide to stay. Fulmer is the guy they should choose for the following reasons:
1) He is proven and has delivered a Championship in the toughest conference by far in the last 20 years. His record is amazing even in the last few years of his time in Tenn. Keep in mind that Tenn. not only played the SEC powerhouses each year but they also would always add a ND, UCLA, Cal, etc... to their schedule.
2) He can handle the media pressure that ND brings. If you can handle the fans and media coverage at Tenn, UGA, Florida, Ala, etc..., you can handle ND.
3) He can flat out recruit with the best of them and he sends his guys to the pros which has been a tough sell for ND recently.
4) He wants to coach in the right situation where he has a shot at a Championship because of how things ended at Tenn. He has something to prove. What better place than ND to do that.
5) He can win in any style. He won with Peyton and with Tee Martin two vastly different styles. Unlike most coaches, he adapts his game to the strengths of his players.
6) He could come in right away and calm the waters on the recruiting front. As mentioned above, this will not be the case with the other 3 very strong candidates. In addition, his recruiting skills would probably help ND to nail down guys on the fence with Charlie right now.

I know people are going to say that we should groom our own guy like a Petersen, Paterson or Kelly, who are coming from smaller programs, and not go after someone who will be always identified with Tenn. ND has always failed when they tried to develop their own guy (ie: Weis, Faust, Davies). They have succeeded with bringing in a proven guy like Devine or Holtz. There is too much uncertainty around a coach's ability to handle the pressure of ND if they have not been in a similar environment. There would be no doubt with Fulmer. If only O'Leary did not lie on his resume, ND would have succeeded with this sane approach several years ago. O'Leary was as sound a choice as Fulmer. He is a proven winner. To those who say ND is no longer the marquee program to draw recruits and coaches that they once were, I disagree. It is not a situation where nobody wants to coach here. The issue for ND is that they made horrendous choices on their coaches the last few years. Davies and Weis were the administration's endless hope that they can groom a legend on their own. It was the same ridiculous way of thinking as they had with Faust. It is comical that they actually thought they could groom a high school coach. Ty was a panic move after the O'Leary debacle. He was a mediocre coach at Stanford and never would have gotten the job if they were not in panic mode. These were all bad choices by the administration and not the result of nobody wanting to coach at ND anymore. Just because one coach in Urban turned them down does not mean that nobody wants to coach here anymore. It is still a marquee job in college football. It is just the marquee job it once was.

my GOD some of you posters are dumb as dirt. Hire Gruden? The last thing we need is another NFL coach. We need a college coach with a proven track record. Hire the Boise State coach? Wow what a stupid suggestion. You think recruits are going to come play for that guy? ND can't recruit the top players anymore? Are you blind or just dumb? We had the #2 (maybe even 1 after you take into account players that actually got accepted into the school). We were in great shape to get some commits from top players this year until this loss (could have had a top 5 or 10 recruiting class...right now we are at #10). Yes it is a lot harder to recruit at ND because we already can't recruit so many players because of academics. Our biggest misses in recruiting have been on the defensive line....it's no coincidence the worst students with the worst grades coming out of high school are dline players. I'm not sure who we should get. Meyer would be ideal because he is a big name and proven coach that recruits would come here for. But I don't see Urban leaving anytime soon...he has it too good....doesn't have to travel much to recruit, etc. Brian Kelly....we won't get as good of players as charlie brought in but he has to be a better coach. Who else is there? That's the problem there isn't anyone.

And the dumbness continues. Phil Fulmer? That is one of the worst suggestions I have ever heard. The Vols didn't want him why would ND, a far superior program in its history, want him?

to say that charlies statement game will be a win over pitt. is like trying to justify a quadriple bogey followed by a birdie. the opportunity for a signature win is over for this year, the damage has been done

KAS, Sully,

Since you're old coaches that both seem to have the answers to defending the Triple Option, I recommend you read "Five Myths About Paul Johnson's Offense" and "Other People's Rivalries and the Futility of Defending the Wishbone." You'll see plenty of "8-in-the-box" in the second post. The Birddog knows Navy and GT's offense, and why its different than what you so easily defended against.

I would much rather follow a quadruple bogey with 2 or 3 birdies rather than another quadruple bogey.

Is Charlie the man? I honestly don't know. I have been a fan of his since the inception but must admit I am starting to get frustrated.
DOn't know if I am on board with dumping Charlie for Gruden. Sure he got a Super Bowl in Tama and the South Bend ties are there. However, the college game is somewhat different from the pro game. Ask Charlie and Lou both!

Stick a fork in him turn him over CHARLIE IS DONE!! Turn out the lights the party is over. Finally THE FAT LADY HAS SUNG!!!!!!!!

Notre Dame needs a coach who can lead them out of the tunnel onto the field (meaning they have to be able to run). They need someone who understands college athletes and knows how to make football fun again. Trust me most of the players greatly dread going to practice and workouts since it feels so much like a chore and a job I've talked to them. I guarantee players at Florida, Alabama, USC all enjoy football and the work they put in to it. Weis doesn't understand how to make football fun and let the kids enjoy themselves. The lack of passion from the players in the opening quarter on saturday was obvious and this is because of Charlie. It would be hard for me to follow and buy into a coach who can't even run and has no self discipline in his own life.

Loma:
You are a meathead. Know your facts on Fulmer before you spout off. Fulmer is one of the few coaches on the market who has a National Championship under his belt. His record over his 17 year career is 152 wins and 52 losses in the SEC. Very impressive. That is 75% of his games in the toughest conference. He has just 2 losing seasons in 17 years. Who else is available who can claim that? By comparison, Lou Holtz has a 65% career win percentage. On top of that, Lou's record in the SEC with So Carolina is 33-37.

It is true that Tenn was looking to push out Fulmer. However, I challenge you to find any coach who has been with their program as long as Fulmer was and took the program to a high expectations who did not have the alumni try to push them out at the end. It is happening to Paterno and Bowden now which is a disgrace. UGA fans are calling for Richt's head which is insane. Ara Paseghian was forced out of Northwestern in 1963 after a 5-4 season which is how he ended up with ND. Do you think Northwestern fans regret that now? Dan Devine was out with the Green Bay Packers after two losing seasons in 1973 and 1974, to go to the Irish. Do you think the Packers would have liked to have had him as they went on to lose for the next decade? I say the same thing about Fulmer. He has four 10+ win seasons since 2001. In his last three seasons he was 9-4, 10-4 and 5-7 once again in the SEC. He would be a legendary figure at ND with those numbers against lesser competition than the SEC faces.

In regards to Chris Petersen and your comments on him, I am at a loss. Are you really that much of an idiot. Petersen in 4 years at Boise State is 44-4 with a defeat of Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. However, in your feeble mind this is not a proven track record. You are ridiculous. In conclusion, I love your suggestion on possible candidates. You narrow it down to Urban Meyer, the best coach in college, and nobody. If only you were the AD at ND to guide us with your brilliant ideas. May be we could be the first program to win the championship with no coach. Loma you are a knucklehead.

I'm just a third-party who likes ND a lot; I'm not a fan or a grad. So without the emotional attachment to ND, let me offer this up for discussion.

I think the real move to make is with the defensive coordinator and the defensive staff. I wonder if Coach Weis' loyalty to his staff is preventing him from finding the right team to coach the D. Seeing several ND games this season, the offense is very solid and can strike quickly. The defense just isn't in the same league.

While loyalty is a great characteristic to have in a coach, it can go too far. Weis needs to make some changes in his own staff or be directed to do so. I don't think the first answer should be to fire Weis. I haven't heard of a good alternative yet, and I certainly haven't heard of one that can fix the D.

Be careful of what you ask for. Hire a guy like Urban Meyer and you'll be the next decade's version of the 1986 Miami Hurricanes. ND will be successful on the field, but the team won't represent ANY of the ideals that makes ND a great school and legendary football program.

Again, I'm an outsider. Not a hater, not a die-hard fan. When I watch ND I want them to win (almost) every game on the schedule. I am really looking forward to see how your offense matches up against Pitt's defense. It's going to be a good show.

Beefy guys like at LSU?

I follow recruiting very closely. According to rivals and ESPN, in quality, ND and LSU have had nearly IDENTICAL recruiting classes since CW came to ND. The sizes of the players on the lines is nearly IDENTICAL coming out of high school.

LSU redshirts nearly all freshman offensive lineman. ND doesnt redshirt except for medical reasons.
That's a big advantage. The LSU guys put on some weight and practice a lot and go to class. They actually do. LSU is a top 50 academic school, identical to Penn State and Minnesota.
LSU has redshirted 15 guys this year. That's typical. They get 5 years to do school work.
ND guys get 4.

LSU played Ga Tech in the Peach/Chik Fil A bowl. LSU won 38-3.

LSU has fast LBs.

I observe that Ga Tech is presently ranked #7 and LSU #8 in the overall BCS ranking.

I wonder how many voters who put Ga Tech ahead of LSU saw the Peach/Chik Fil A bowl whipping? This reminds me of a couple of years ago when 10-2 Va Tech was #5 or 6, ranked just ahead of 10-2 LSU at the end of the regular season.

LSU had beat Va Tech 48-7 on the playing field that year.

Some voters dont actually watch as much football as we do. But you shouldnt have to actually even watch the games if there was head to head and one team won 48-7, you'd think the voters could figure it out. I suspect some kind of regional prejudice in which they vote 'their' team, no matter what the facts are.

Correct me if I'm wrong but NO.

Its worse that you think. ND DOES have the talent of the high end programs.
Since CW came, ND has had nearly identical recruiting classes as LSU.
One year recently ND was #1 in some ranking systems, and #2 in others.
Every year ND has been in the top dozen and usually around #6.

Therefore, its about coaching. The ENTIRE STAFF. Conditioning, play calling, all of it.

The players are the same as the other very high end programs.
Only Texas and Florida have had slightly better classes, year in and year out.

The players are way better than Boise. The players are nearly identical to LSU's.

Look at rivals website for the past few years.

1. we congratulate a fine navy team of real student athletes on a fine hard fought win.
2. this is the same navy team that opened the 2009 season by coming withing a whisker of beating the mighty buckeyes at the shoe, got robbed of a win over mighty pittsburgh by dishonest big east officials, and lost to a temple team only with the assistance of another dishonest officiating crew and in a game in which navy great qb ricky dobbs, who was a full go for the notre dame game, could not play.
3. in addition, anyone who really knows anything about notre dame navy football games knows that navy's entire season revolves around the notre dame game and that navy saves for notre dame only plays on offense and defense that no one who looks at their previous game films ever will see before the notyre dame game.
4. is it possible that, at some subconscious level, some notre dame student athletes allowed their great respect for the naval academy to translate into missing assignments on offense and defense in the 1st half, only to come roaring back in the second half and end up 2 points short?
5. yes, that is possible.
6. is it a shock that navy won this year? only to the seriously misinformed.
7. since the people who now make all decisions relating to notre dame football have never once allowed any thought of firing charlie weis or any member of his staff, what is all of this charlie on the hot seat stuff about?
8. it is all about trying to drive recruits away from notre dame and to football factories such as usc that will ruin their lives.
9. charlie came to notre dame subject to conditions that no other coach would even dare to touch, especially urban meyer.
10. those conditions are that charlie and his staff and notre dame's student athletes would do their very best to bring back from near death a notre dame football program with honesty and integrity, with zero extra benefits, and without sacrificing notre dame's very high academic and character standards, along with dishonest conference officials until people like us came along to fix the dishonest officiating, rules enforcement, and rankings systems.
11. given those severe limitations, what charlie and his staff and notre dame's student athletes have accomplished is nothing short of miraculous.
12. anyone who wants or expects notre dame to get into the sewers with the uscs, the alabamas, the lsus, the miamis, the north carolinas, the floridas, and the other current college football powers had better find another team to root for.
13. to the extent that some notre dame student athletes allowed their utmost respect for the naval academy to tranlate into playing tentatively on offense and defense only to get decked in the 1st half by future united states marines and to come up fighting and nearly winning in the second half, every notre dame student athlete has learned that lesson well and we pity the highly ranked pittsburgh team that will get the payback from this 2009 notre dame team next week.
14. for our part, we will make the necesary personal visits to the relevant big east conference officials to make certain that the notre dame/pittsburgh, notre dame/uconn, and notre dame/stanford(big east game crew, pac 10 tech review crew) games are honestly officiated.
15. we are pleased to report that we have made significant progress with the pac 10 officiating, courtesy of new pac 10 commissioner larry scott and a number boards of trustees of honest pac 10 conference schools( not usc so far, but long time usc president and board of trustee member has recently announced his resignation).
16. courtesy of the many honest big 10 coaches and members of the boards of trustees of many big 10 member schools( not michigan so far)we have also made significant progress with big 10 officiating.
17. among the many phony wins that will be turned into losses by forfeit before this season is over are this notre dame team's phony paper losses to michigan and usc, thereby correcting notre dame's current record to 8-1.
18. we have heard all of the no one can do anything like this garbage before before we took down the enron and mci worldcom scams with our civil rico lawsuits.
19. as we post, the members of boards of directors at schools all over the us are considering whether they are going to take immediate remedial action, including forfeits, against the con artists who have been running the crooked officiating, rules enforcement, and rankings scams for many years or do nothing and put at risk their o0wn personal assets and the endowments of their schools.
20. for the rest, we continue to have absolute faith and trust in charlie and in his staff and in notre dame's student athletes who also play football.
GO IRISH!!!

Like many of you, before the season started, I wasted way too much time and energy considering the entire season, and I thought before the season started that the road games @ Stanford and @ Pitt would be challenges.

Stanford is playing like I expected and Pitt is a little better than I expected. They are both well coached solid teams.
ND may win them both, but they are going to be INTENSE games. Pitt is presently ranked #12, #2 in a weak BCS conference. Maybe playing to save CW's job will be enough. I think the team knows, if they get beat by Pitt AND Stanford, and finish 7-5, AGAIN, CW is toast. 9-3 with victories over Pitt and Stanford will save CW's job. It should, I believe.
ND is about to be tested. CW will be judged. Beating Hawaii doesnt do it for me.

Let's see how ND does against decent BCS conference teams.
This is not like playing the undefeated BCS conference leaders.
Stanford and Pitt are decent teams. We knew before the season started, they were going to be solid, tough. They will be tough.
Show us what you can do, CW.

Florida produces more high end high school players than any other state per capita except Louisiana, and Florida has 8 times the population as Louisiana, so its easy to find great players. Meyers has it easy. He's not going to ND where he would have to fight vs Michigan, Tennessee, Southern Cal, Stanford, CAL and Oklahoma for national recruits.
He already said no thanks, to that one. What's changed? Meyers has the pipeline filled at Florida.
Look at rivals recruiting. Florida are in the top ten again for 2010 and they still have several slots yet to fill.

1. we have received the report of our experts on the officiating at the notre dame/navy game and both the game officials and the tech review crew received Fs.
2. the outcome of this game was definitely altered by dishonest officiating.
3. since we know that no navy student athlete or anyone associated with the naval academy would ever knowingly seek out any assistance from dishonest officials or accept a win in any game, the outcome of which was clearly determined by dishonest officiating, we are taking our evidence to each game and tech review official, to their conference superiors, and to the naval academy.
4. the motives of the officials could be misguided senses of patriotism or more sinister payoffs by schools that cheat seeking advantages over notre dame on the recruiting trail.
5. we simply do not tolerate dishonest officiating for any reason and we know that the naval academy authorities will agree when they review the evidence from our experts and will take the honorable action, along with every navy student athlete.
6. those who have posted items stating that charlie and his staff have no future at notre dame are either notree dame's enemies posing as notre dame fans or fair weather only notre dame fans who would be well advised to go root for usc or florida or alabama.
7. charlie and his staff are at notre dame to stay.
8. the current corrupt officiating, rules enforcement, and rankings systems at the conference, ncaa, and bcs levels, along with the predator coaches and every person and entity associated with crooked college sports enterprises are already doomed whether they accept that fact and the consequences before or after their civil rico trials.
9. remember that charlie and his staff and notre dame's student athletes who also play football are required to keep silent about dishonest officiating under the current conference and ncaa level "sportsmanship" conduct rules.
GO IRISH!!!

People.. some of you must take what Lou Holtz has to say way too serious. You have all these great ideas and yet you probably aren't even the best player on your flag football team. The idea that the ole boy had about playing a 4-4 defense is brilliant. If they aren't going to run the 4-4 then at least run a 4-3 and put a safety near the line of scrimmage. Playing a 3-4 defense against Navy or any option team is dumb. You need some guys on the line to take up gaps so the linebackers can cover the options to the outside instead of taking on interior linemen. Anyway, coach Weis is NOT going to get fired. The reason he's NOT going to get fired is because he's a descent human being and losing a football game is not the end of the world. I yell profanities at the TV all day long when I watch this team play. Against Michigan all the defense had to do was get 1 stop and they would've won. Against USC the defense gives up 3rd down pass after 3rd down pass. Yesterday.. when the offense is struggling the defense needs to step up and make a play. Charlie and Tenuta call the plays and it's up to the players to make it happen. Lets face it.. the players are the ones that need to step it up. They are the ones missing tackles, missing reads and letting WR's run wide open down the field. The players need to execute!! Clausen is a great QB but after watching yesterdays game it's clear to me that nobody on this team is ready for the NFL. 2010 should be the year for Notre Dame to be in the hunt for the NT or at worse play in one of the major BCS games. They need to win the next 4 games including the Bowl game and get ready for 2010. If Weis fails to take them to a major bowl next year then he should walk away. He said it in 2005 when he was hired...mediocre isn't good enough. Also, his last name is spelled W-E-I-S for the love of God... if you can't spell his name right then don't post comments about firing him!!

I agree with the comments from Otto the wise on Urban Meyer. I can not fathom a reason why Urban would come here over staying at Florida. He can get in his car to recruit over flying all over the country which ND involves. This is a huge advantage in that you can be with your family more.

I also think J Mack is on the money with the Phil Fulmer suggestion. I had not thought of him but he makes total sense. How is this guy still available????? I live in SEC country and the Tenn game was always a feared game because of Fulmer. It is not anymore since he left. We were never sure of why he was pushed out of Tenn but it smells like what is going on at PSU and FSU. There is always a push to get rid of the legend before they are through. Tenn has not exactly proved him wrong thus far with Lane's hiring. They are 5-4 with some tough games ahead. ND should grab him quick if he is willing to go there.

Otto and Poon:
Urban turned down the job 5 yrs ago because he had a young family and being in Fla meant he could, in fact, recruit by car and have more quality time with the family. His kids are now 5 yrs older and his oldest a freshman in college. I think the other two are 15 and 10 yrs of age. Since they are older, maybe he'll reconsider taking his "dream job".....his own words, not mine. He has said in recent interviews that it is still his dream job and 5 yrs ago he wanted to talk South Bend and his family wanted to talk Florida. You ever been in Gainesville in August? Maybe the family has had enough of Fla. Tebow leaves for the NFL and Urban gets his 3rd National Title and then its going to be about his legacy, how he will be viewed for posterity long after he's gone. He has the ideal situation to come in to ND in mid-Jan 2010 and start motivating these highly ranked classes to win. He's also plugged in to the Fla pipeline of their talent rich HS players, knows the coaches well, etc. That could only help ND in the long run instead of just poaching 1 or 2 kids from Thomas Aquinas like they do now. Am I crazy? All the signs are pointing to Meyer and I think he's coming sooner or later, hopefully sooner. Many people point to his one interview where he said "Never" in reference to going to ND. What's he supposed to say? "Yeah I'm going" would leave the Fla program in a tailspin. He wouldn't do that in case something doesn't work out. He can get the premiere job in college sports and make more money, its there for his taking. Let Polian and other assistants fly to Hawaii and Cali...he can still spend time with the family in So. Bend. This is going to happen.

To Art Vandelay: robertg has posted again. Please come up with a clever response.

In the business world (I know, this will be a bit of a stretch) we might offer Charlie a way out of this mess and stress he's in. We would create a new position for him, something like VP of Offensive Coordination and Recruiting, and that would help him save face, yet keep his talent in the organization.

Then we would bring in the new President (Head Coach) who would be the one who could make the changes in the horrid defensive coaching staff and Charlie wouldn't have to do it. Charlie then spends his career doing what he does best, and the new Head Coach, who sees the bigger picture (like, say, defense wins championships) takes ND back to the national championship arena. I'm just sayin'....

Hey robertg, your posts have got to be a put on, right? I mean nobody is that crazy. You say the job Weis has done is nothing short of miraculous! Classic. On the other hand, if you are for real, your planet must have some very thin air.

Warmest personal regards,
Your pal,
Art

art,
1. we do find your must be a put on, nobody is that crazy, and planet with thin air comments to be highly entertaining.
2. while we just hate the thought of missing out on your entertainment value, we are afraid that we cannot grant your request to be our pal.
3. however, we can refer you to several individuals with whom you do appear to have have a lot in common:kenneth lay, formerly of enron( unfortunately, ken is currently available only through a meduim); jeffrey skilling and andrew fastow, both also formerly of enron, but both are available in federal prisons after we stripped them all of their material possessions with our civil rico lawsuits; bernard ebbers, formerly of mci worldcom, but now residing at a federal prison, and bernard madoff, previously ran a 56 billion dollar ponzi scam, but now resides for life at the federal correctional complex in butner, north carolina.
4. these people all tried the must be a put on. nobody is that crazy, and planet with thin air defenses and they can tell you in person how that turned out for them.
5. if you read books, you could try"conspiracy of fools" by kenneth eichenwold on the enron scam and cynthia cooper's " extraordinary circumstances: the journey of a corporate whistleblower" on the mci worldcom scam.
6. as an alternative you could try writing to jack swarbrick, notre dame's athletic dirtector and to the members of notre dame's board of trustees.
7. you and your online internet friends can explain to jack and the members of notre dame's board of trustees that they have to fire charlie and his staff and hire you and your friends who think they have all of the answers about notre dame football.
8. you also might contact eric hansen of the south bend tribune who has been writing the most vicious polemics imaginable attacking charlie and his staff and their families and notre dame's student athletes. after all, hansen claimed to be speaking on behalf of all notre dame fans when he guaranteed in writing that he would get charlie fired in 2006.2007,2008, and 2009, only to fail completely over and over again.
GO IRISH!!!

I'm an SC fan (though not a ND hater by any means) and I can tell you it is all about coaching. These are kids who need leadership.

We went through the same mediocre coaching doldrums back in the Larry Smith, Paul Hackett, et al years. Guys who could not inspire confidence, let alone lead them. While our recruits were not what they are today, they were still generally a pretty good bunch of kids.

All it took was a coach like Carrol to get back to basics (defense) and turn over the offense to assistants who could produce results. And make the kids believe. With the guys you inherit. And it didn't take ten years to do it - it took Pete one season.

Weiss and ND have the talent but not the mindset. Look at Weiss. His demeanor. Yes, the kids will tell you they want to win for him but every program's kids will say that. It's not enough. And as long as ND continues with run-of-the-mill, uninspiring coaches, ND will be mediocre. Which they are. Nothing more.

Don't get me wrong, another 5-10 years of Weiss would suit me fine :-)

I'm an SC fan (though not a ND hater by any means) and I can tell you it is all about coaching. These are kids who need leadership.

We went through the same mediocre coaching doldrums back in the Larry Smith, Paul Hackett, et al years. Guys who could not inspire confidence, let alone lead them. While our recruits were not what they are today, they were still generally a pretty good bunch of kids.

All it took was a coach like Carrol to get back to basics (defense) and turn over the offense to assistants who could produce results. And make the kids believe. With the guys you inherit. And it didn't take ten years to do it - it took Pete one season.

Weiss and ND have the talent but not the mindset. Look at Weiss. His demeanor. Yes, the kids will tell you they want to win for him but every program's kids will say that. It's not enough. And as long as ND continues with run-of-the-mill, uninspiring coaches, ND will be mediocre. Which they are. Nothing more.

Don't get me wrong, another 5-10 years of Weiss would suit me fine :-)

JOHN GRUDEN???? Hahahahahahah!! gOOD LUCK TRYING TO FIND A DECENT COACH! tHE PROBLEM WITH nd IS THAT THEY WILL never WIN A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!! The best college players are black and there arent any black catholics around the south! Yuo cant recruit TOP TIER tallent. WHo wants to live in SOUTH BEND??? Please guys, give it a rest. You could hire VinceLombardi and you would still play a hlaf ass schedule against half ass teamewd and still be unranked.

Why do we throw jump balls to Michael Floyd in the corner of the endzone on his first game back from a broken collar bone? That's how he broke it in the first place!! (and he got up very slowly after falling it again after a jump ball) You're a few yards out of the end zone... I gotta believe Jimmy can throw a quick slant to one of the 2 best receivers in the country for a TD. Maybe that would have improved our redzone stats. ENOUGH fades!!

Yet another example of Charlie Weis' "brilliant" play calling abilities. Get rid of him AND Tenuta.

NAVY controlled this game from beginning to end. Yes, ND had their mistakes and some offense. But their was never a moment in this game I felt NAVY was losing control on either side of the ball. NAVY is for real. At least NBC even has a headline on it. ESPN has an "insiders" only and not one major headline on it. And honestly, everything is about ND gave it away, NOT that Navy dominated the #22 team in the nation and beat them for the second time in the last 3 meetings.

NAVY has the 3rd best rushing attack in the nation, an excellent defense, the best coach in NCAA football (when you consider what he's able to do with what he has).

I laughed when Clausen got the unsportsmanlike for shoving that Navy defender in the face. That dude was probably more intimidated by the ND cheerleaders than that premadonna.

GO NAVY!

Great posting by BGTrojan. You hit the nail on the head. People were saying the same thing about USC 10 years ago. They said the same thing about Texas and Oklahoma before that. The program was done, nobody wants to play in LA, the USC no longer gets the recruits it did, etc... Carroll proved them wrong. The reality was that they were still getting good recruits. There was still a ton of value in the name. They are part of a group of programs that will always have a shot at a title if they win (Bama, Auburn, Florida, LSU, USC, PSU, FSU, Mich, etc...). ND is on that list as well. The right coach can turn the ship quickly. Every program goes through a down cycle. ND has had them before several times in their history. It did not just go from Rockne to Leahy to Ara to Devine to Holtz. There were many bad years and bad coaches in between many of these guys where people said the exact same thing that they are saying now. It is being said about programs like Michigan, Auburn, Florida St, etc... right now. People are saying that they are done too and that they can not get recruits anymore. The reality is that these programs are not done. There is a history to each and legacy that each has. With the right coach in place, each program will turn around and be back in contention. The reality for all of these programs is that they have the fan base and the name to always be considered for national championship consideration if they win. Whether it is right or wrong, this is what sets them apart from other programs and is why good coaches will always come to these teams. Look at Iowa this year. If ND had their record, they would have been a lot higher in the poll than Iowa was. Boise State in 2006 goes undefeated and knocks off Oklahoma in a BCS bowl and they had no chance to even be in a serious discussion on national championship consideration. ND will be able to get an up in coming coach like Kelly or Petersen. They will not be able to get guy from a powerhouse like Meyer or Saban. This has always been the case though. Guys at powerhouse programs do not jump ship for another powerhouse. Ara and Devine were not going to do it when they were at ND and Bear Bryant and Paterno were not doing it when they were at their powerhouses. Everyone forgets that Ara, Devine and Holtz were not at big time programs when ND brought them on board. They were at programs that were at second tier programs. ND represented a chance to go to a program where they could contend for a Championship. I am confident that there are others like Kelly and Petersen who will conclude the same thing and come on board. ND is not a dead program. It is in a down cycle because of some poor coaching decisions just like every other big program goes through from time to time.

Two points...
1. Re: recruiting...There was a time when Notre Dame had its pick of Catholic high school blue chippers NATIONWWIDE...not any more. If they could figure out a way to get some percentage of those kids back, it would certainly help.
2. I know that this will be a contentious statement, but these kids need to clean up their act and the way they present themselves. Many have no pride in the way they present themselves, and that carries over onto the field. They do not represent Notre Dame well when they are unkempt...long hair...unshaven...tattoos in excess. Part of the Notre Dame tradition was off of the field as well as on. If they have no pride in how they represent the school, we should not expect them to have any remorse over their performance on the field. Think back to Lou Holtz' first meeting with his new team and you will see what I mean.
They need to get back to the entire Notre Dame way of doing things...on and off the field.

Actually, the five things we learned were"

1. ND sucks
2. Charlie Wies sucks
3. Lou "ND win the National Championship this year" Holtz sucks
4. Navy does not suck as much as ND
5. At South Bend, Newton was wrong, there is no much thing as gravity, ND sucks

robertg:

I have been posting on ND and other football sites for awhile and I don't think I've ever made a reference to some of the things you have, ie. Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff, etc. Go sell your crazy on a Fox News blog or some other such site.

Your pal,
Art

Willmose--how old are you?

Curious how some focus on the games ND barely lost yet the ones they barely squeaked by are assumed they should be wins. A MSU pass 6 inches lower gives Sparty a 'W'. Washington had the ball inside the 10 yard line for 8 plays, some of those inside the 5. If they score it's 9 points up with a couple of minutes to play. Anyone take it for granted ND defense should have held? Really? Did you watch the game? Purdue was also close. So the close ones ND wins are, of course, rightfully so. Then point to the how ND should have won when they lost the tight games.
Come On!
Slamming Willingham's recruits is incomprehensible. The 2 BCS games Charlie was invited to get slaughtered were his first 2 years - primarily with Willingham's players. How are Charlie's recruits working out for you? BTW, those 2 games paid his salary for the foreseeable future so the ledger is even.
Maybe there's a general dislike of him and his arrogant attitude fans might be willing to forgive as long as he wins. Might be out of context, but his "I never change" sums it up. "Take it or leave it, I'm here to stay. Don't like it? Buy me out."
Those are just impressions. They could be wrong.

Curious how some focus on the games ND barely lost yet the ones they barely squeaked by are assumed they should be wins. A MSU pass 6 inches lower gives Sparty a 'W'. Washington had the ball inside the 10 yard line for 8 plays, some of those inside the 5. If they score it's 9 points up with a couple of minutes to play. Anyone take it for granted ND defense should have held? Really? Did you watch the game? Purdue was also close. So the close ones ND wins are, of course, rightfully so. Then point to the how ND should have won when they lost the tight games.
Come On!
Slamming Willingham's recruits is incomprehensible. The 2 BCS games Charlie was invited to get slaughtered were his first 2 years - primarily with Willingham's players. How are Charlie's recruits working out for you? BTW, those 2 games paid his salary for the foreseeable future so the ledger is even.
Maybe there's a general dislike of him and his arrogant attitude fans might be willing to forgive as long as he wins. Might be out of context, but his "I never change" sums it up. "Take it or leave it, I'm here to stay. Don't like it? Buy me out."
Those are just impressions. They could be wrong.

I am as old as the hills, old enough to remember that what was wrong with ND was all Ty's fault. Old enough to remember that Charlie Wies was the greatest football coach since Rockne. What is wrong with the Irish is that they are a bad football team led by a bad coach playing an incredibly weak schedule. TJM you take this blog seriously, like there is something that could fix this silly excuse for a football team. The realization that the ND football program SUCKS big time would be a step in the right direction.

I am old enough to remember when ND played good football. When the excuses about the admission standards being too high were just that excuses. Enjoy the next 7 years with Charlie, then somebody may get a clue and ND can join the Big East and finish last.

One more item. Somebody above mentioned railroading Lou Holtz out of town. For those who forgot, Google Kim Dunbar and NCAA probation of Notre Dame football. Guess who was running the show? He barely escaped from Minnesota and Arkansas, NCAA on his heels for steroid abuse and recruiting violations there.
He was a cheat and a con man. Oh, still is. He's stealing BSPN's money for...uhh...hmmmm...exactly what does he add to the show? He's an embarrassment and ND should ask him not to parade his allegiance to the Irish in front of an impressionable audience. They might become disillusioned when the truth is revealed.

robertg,

Sarcasm noted. Anone who responds to your e mails seriously just doesn't get it except more of it from you. But seriously, in your 20 point posting above, who exactly is ISUS? As for the phony losses to USC and UM, my guess the real loss was to Navy. Seriously?
Comic strip has teacher explaining a pencil to grade schoolers: "The pointed end is input, the pink end is erase". Lots of points, not enough of the erase end.

You may be "as old as the hills" but apparently the only movie you ever saw was "Fast Times At Ridgemont High". It's regretful your deep thought and analysis is limited by your inability to come up with any other verb than "sucks" or I'm sure we could all be enlightened with your enhanced point of view. Regretfully, you're dismissed as another ND -hater with a limited vocabulary, double digit IQ and apparently no team of their own. SEC scholarship material.

I am 97 years old and have seen it all at Notre Dame. I put all three of my sons through ND so I have a sense of pride from watching them at the stadium cheer during the glory years. I still go for a game a year with my one living son Paul and my grandsons. I want the pride to return and have my grand kids see how great ND can be again. While I think Mr Weis is a nice fellow. I feel he may just not be the person to take the program back there. I will throw a name out there. How about making a call to Mr Bill Parcells? It does not get any bigger than him. I think he has always had a desire to coach on the big stage of college football. What better place than the historic Notre Dame. Mr Parcells would whip those boys into shape and give them the toughness needed to get us back on board. Let us make it happen.

My oh my but we eat our own. We don't do well at picking coaches, we don't do well at keeping coaches. We don't keep coaches because we don't seem to pick good ones. We don't pick good ones because the good ones don't seem to come to Notre Dame.

Why is that? Hmm. I wonder. Could it be because we do so well at eating our own? I'm as angry as the next Domer at the situation here. I've read some very well thought out and written prose concerning the reasons for dumping our coach. It seems they all feel he's had his chance and blown it. Some say if he's gone so go the pro style passers coming here. So go the recruits. Well maybe pro coaches don't know how to coach college kids. Or maybe pro coaches who do well in the pros don't. I can think of a few who didn't do too badly though. Dan Devine, and a certain coach now residing at SC. Maybe it was their failure at getting past all the bloated egos in the pros, or maybe they didn't buy into their "Ra Ra" stuff.

So keep the coach or dump the coach. I have a heavy thumb that keeps pointing down with every loss. He's had his time. He's fired, hired assistants. He's done his very best, but I am not sure he can do better, and his best is not good enough.

I wonder if this Notre Dame coach has ever told his team "No one, and I mean no one pushes us around on our home field."

Dublin Joe-Greatest thought I've seen on this site! If only we could get Parcells.

I see Gruden's name and I wince. Just a name. Don't hear it much from knowledgeable football people when it comes to best people for filling any coaching vacancies.

I don't think Tony Dungy would be a bad pick either. But first we have to get through the rest of this nightmare season and it will get worse.

Montana Red --

I thought my comments were very constructive. The ND football program can't be fixed with its present management in place. Charlie Wies is a horrible coach. The problem is that no one at the school seems to understand that everyone associated with program is in denial. I'm not a ND hater, I am a football lover and truth lover.

Let's look at all the other schools with much, much better academic reputations than ND. Cal, Stanford, U of Mich, Boston College, Purdue, even, the U of Texas and U of Oklahoma just to name a few. It is not that Notre Dame is a bad school academically, it just isn't one of the great universities.

I use the word sucks quite often when talking about the Irish because it is a word that ND fans appear to understand. They just don't know that it applies to their team. Rather than address the problems they insult the messenger. BYW, I am not a NASCAR fan so my IQ is well into 3 digits.

So here is a seriously list to correct what's wrong with Notre Dame football.

1. Lousy AD, fire him.
2. Terrible football coach and staff. Run out of town on a rail.
3. Misguided, under coached, SLOW football players. Recruit some with speed and size and coach them well.
4. Join a football conference.
5. Face reality. Terrible coaching, slow football players and soft scheduling doesn't build National Champions.

Knute Rockne's ashes have blown away.

You got it Dog?

There are alot of college football teams, including Division III where there are no athletic scholarships but alot of great athletes who choose to focus on academics and preparation for life after sports. Navy midshipman have held their head high after 40 plus straight loses to ND. Do you think ND would be able to do the same?

ND needs to research who the brains behind Rockne, a half-indian who taught Rockne football, played on the Carlisle Indians with Thorpe, coached at Albright College, and coached Washington to a win in the first Rose Bowl. His name was Lone Star Deitz. ND may consider a statue of Lone Satar beside Rockne who has never received credit for ND's glory days.

What is the problem?

I see several but one big issue I have is the schedule. Their schedule is very weak. SC and Pitt are the only quality teams this year on the schedule. SC has proven that they are not the powerhouse we have come to expect and when the schedule was implemented, you can bet that Pitt was not expected to be ranked. They stomped Nevada and Washington State but failed to put away any of the other cupcakes. All of this talk of BCS was BS. Strength of schedule comes to play in the BCS and ND just doesn't schedule big games. The fans get excited because their record looks good and the media plays into the hype.

Everyone needs to take a step back and revisit the schedule. What good team have we beaten soundly? We just aren't that good!

1. fascintating advice from some posters claiming to be usc fans who are telling notre dame that the problems with notre dame football are all about coaching.
2. sure, notre dame could have climbed into the sewers with pete carroll and his crooked usc program years ago, but chose not to and never will change on those issues.
3. the perceived problems with notre dame football have nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with dishonest officiating, corrupt rules enforcement, and corrupt rankings systems.
4. anyone can climb into the sewers and cheat to win. such con operationms usually last for a few yeasrs and appear to be successful, but inevitably hit brick walls and get whacked by sanctions with examples being barry switzer at oklahoma and dennis erickson and butch davis at miami.
5.for the forseeable future,no matter what anyone posts here or elsewhere notre dame is sticking with charlie and his staff who have earned notre dame's trust and admiration.
6. the corrupt officiating, rules enforcement, and rankings systems will not be around next season, but charlie and his staff and notre dame's student athletes will be back stronger than ever and thriving in honest officiasting, rules enforcement, and rankings systems.
7. as for petey and mikey and usc's corrupt football program, petey and mikey will be banned for life from college sports since usc football, which is looking very weak ever since new pac 10 commissioner cut off their supplies of dishonest pac 10 officiating crews after usc's phony win over oregon state.
GO IRISH!!!

Being a long time ND fan I see no excuses for the play. These are young men being Coached by a staff that is questionable. They may have been good coaches other places but something changed when they came to ND. It is a shame this year the ND stands for NO DEFENSE instead of Notre Dame and it is not a talent issue. The offense seems to be one dimenstionable and that is a passing offense. ND fans are not use to this. Some line men are good pass blockers and some are good run blockers. The book is still out on what we have. Watching these games the play calling seems to be putting the load on Clausen and his receivers and the running game does not exist. Not that we don't have talented running backs, but they aren't getting the chance to carry the rock. We should have RUN all over Navy on Saturday. Instead i saw a lot of patting the states for a Heisman canidate. Clausen is good and the wins will get him a better look at after season awards than INDIVIDUAL stats. Clausen has proven he is a great leader in the pinch, but he can't do it all. WE need to run more. There is a GOOD chance we will end up 7-5 this year again. When will the madness end and the excuses stop. I am thinkin in 6 years when his contract runs out. Just my thoughts.

Rich:
I too am a life long ND fan. 97 years young and a fan since I was a little lad. I have seen the ups and downs in this program. We have had many great years but also some down years. You must not have read my suggestion earlier but I think I have a cure for our problems. While I think Weis is a fine young lad, I think it is time for change. I have a big name coach that I think can fix the problems. MR BILL PARCELLS. It does not get any bigger than MR BILL PARCELLS. He is a winner. He also has respects of our most sacred rivalries with the academies. He spent his early days as a coach at West Point along side of one Mr Robert Knight. Yep, that is Bobby Knight, an Indiana treasure. Perhaps if we can get Mr Parcells here, we may also be able to convince Mr Knight to come back to Indiana to coach our Basketball team. I like Mr Brey and think he runs a nice program but to have Mr Knight bring that brand of toughness to the school would be a dream come true. Can you imagine Mr Harangody under Mr Knight. I see many championships in our future with these two fine young men guiding our prestigious program back to greatness. Now for the tough part. How do we make it happen?

Joe,

That is a great thought but i don't see it as happening. Maybe within the next 6 years Chuck could add Parcells to his coaching staff. I believe Mr. Brey is doing a fine job in basketball as he has brought it back to a respectable program. I live 30 minutes from PSU and not a PSU fan, but maybe we could consult the football guru JoePA. He must know something about football with all his years of success. He also knows how to keep his good assistance which i believe is the key to a successfull college football program. GOD bless you Joe for all your support to ND football and the university.

Rich

Tony Dungy? Bill Parcells? Jon Gruden?? Are you kidding me??? Why would SUPER BOWL winning Pro Football coaches want to tarnish their image by going to Notre Dame? Seriously! You might get Bobby Petrino, that would be a bout it. I hear Mangini in Cleveland is looking for a job!! Tony Dungy?????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA What a bunch of HOMERS!!

Mr Parcells would be honored to be a part of our fine institution and have a chance to "Wake up the echoes" I have watched this game for over 90 years and I have seen no finer institution than Notre Dame. Mr Parcells is the kind of big name we need to get the "fight, fight, fight" back in us. He would be honored to join the ranks of Rockne, Leahy, Ara, Devine and Holtz in these gallowed halls. What better way to cap off a wonderful career than with a championship at Notre Dame. The four horsemen. the Gipper. Mr Parcells right along side them all.

As for Mr Mangini, I do not think he would be a good choice as you suggest. We need a man for the job that commands respect and can discipline these fine young boys. I think Mr Mangini is a nice fellow but I think he needs some more seasoning. Perhaps in 10 years, he might be a choice after he has established himself. At that point Mr Parcells would be ready to step down and it would make sense to pass it to one of his guys like Mr Mangini or perhaps Mr Bill Belicheck. I am sure he would also be honored to come here especially if he can follow in the footsteps of his mentor and good friend Mr Parcells. Now my challenge to you Brad is How can we make this happen?

not sure young man why you are attacking poor Montana Red, bless his heart. The winter's are God awful up there and now he has to deal with your rudeness. You should be ashamed of yourself. As far as your opinion that Notre Dame is not a elite academic institution, you obviously did not see the movie "Rudy." Poor Rudy could not get in for many semesters, and he studied like the Dickens.
Do not be angry my friend. Tell the truth or shame the Devil! You could not get into ND and now you are angry.

Why would you call this young boy a dog?? That does not seem to be the Christian way. Behave yourself and apologize to poor Montana Red. I am sure is is very upset, which explains the lack of postings from him today. I agree with Joe from Dublin. Lets surprise everyone and bring back Tyrone Willingham. He could recruit like no one's business. Here is where I bring it a step further, Tyrone hires Charlie as his Offensive Professor, and Bob Davies, a handsome young boy as his Defensive Professor. The last gem would be a Mr. Lou Holtz heading up Special Teams. People would take notice. These young boys would wake up the echoes!!! Willmose please stop your abrasive behavior. I hope my kind words turn your heart around. Please turn your frown upside down. Fight with Nana to get Tyrone back to South Bend. Millrose you know he was hurt terribly a few years back. I just hope he does not have anger in his heart. We need him back.

Joe from Dublin:

1. Play a REAL schedule. Throw in some upper tier teams like LSU, Florida or Alabama.
2. Join a conference and play a conference championship game.
3. Recruit more players from the south (i.e. speed)
4. Quit talking about the glory years. History IS HISTORY.
5. Quit thinking that you are just a head coach away from a National Championship.
6. Realize that any top tier recruit, unless he is catholic(which aint many)would not want to spend 4 years in South Bend.
7. According to recruiting rankings, ND gets what is left over from the big programs. There is no fixing that, so you wont ever win a national championship again. Too much competition from NON_ RELIGIOUS schools. Unfortunately, great athelets usually aren't great people!!

Brad:
While I do not agree with some of your suggestions, I can see you have put a lot of careful thought into them. This is the kind of "can do" spirit that we need if we are going to get Mr Parcells into these legendary halls to "wake up the echoes". I do think you are right about that fact that we need more than a head coach. We need good sound assistants to run our Defense and Offense. As I stated earlier, I am not as excited about Mr Mangini as you are but may be we give him a chance under Mr Parcells as a linebacker coach or a defensive line coach until he proves his merits. We have a lot of fine young men at linebacker and may be Mr Mangini could instill some of those core Notre Dame values that are sacred to our beloved institution. I think Mildred makes some interesting suggestions. There was no finer man handling the X's and O's like Mr. Tyrone Willingham. The poor fellow never was able to complete his mission at Notre Dame. I could think of no better way of apologizing to him than to offer him the Offensive Coordinator position under Mr Parcells. The thought of having Mr Holtz return as a special teams coordinator gives me chills. I think he would go for it. Like myself, he is getting up there in years but he still seems like he wants to be involved in some capacity. The special teams job would be the fit. I do politely disagree with Mildred's suggestion on Mr Davies. I do not like to use such distasteful words on others but I always thought Mr Davies was a bit of a Hooligan. I will just leave it at that. Perhaps we can look to Mr Dungy or Mr Gruden to run the defense. I do not think that under normal circumstances they would go for it. However, these would not be normal circumstances if we were able to get Mr Parcells in to stir up the legends of the Gipper, the Grotto and the Four Horsemen. Once again, Brad I ask you this simple question- How do we make this happen. I would like to put our heads together and figure out a plan. I know you have that same "fight, fight fight" can do spirit in you like me. Let's wake up the echoes together on this one and get Mr Parcells here to get this fine institution back where it belongs.

I'll end the GOOD, the BAD, the UGLY, like this:
The good is ND has rich history, yes. Currently a good COACH who is proving that the EXPLOSIVE players ND needs at the SKILL positions to WIN in big time college football are WILLING to sit on ND's side of the football "table" when ND meets on saturdays to discuss "BUSINESS" with the "BIG EIGHT" or any other team ND might face in a big time bowl game in the future. ND FORGETS that back when GOOD OL' MR HOLTZ was around ND still had PROBLEMS with DEPTH on ND's roster. Well maybe not depth but lets just say not as many future nfl players. Or at least you can say not as many as the CANES (CONVICTS), NOLES, GATORS, ETC. So, these teams have always been around. Even when ND was WINNING natn'l CHAMPIONSHIPS and facing teams such as the 'CANES (CONVICTS) AND NOLES LOADED with plenty of NFL talent, which are teams compairable to toady's GATORS and USC teams. ND knew back then ND couldn't compare to the AMOUNT and SIZE of talent they had but ND WAS TOUGH ENOUGH to BEAT those teams on any given day ESPECIALLY at HOME. Don't forget ND is merely trying to "eat" with them because on any given day EVERY team is BEATABLE, I'm sure any- and everyone would agree with that even if you live in VEGAS, L.A., DALLAS, MIAMI, ETC. ND may or may not EVER be a DYNASTY AGAIN but I'm sure EVERYONE would be happy with 1 'CHIP every 10 OR 20 YEARS as long as ND has waited! The DIFFERENCE is back then, HOLTZ was able to get in a players FACE and MOTIVATE the players to if nothing else DEFEND ND's FIELD, ND's TURF, ND's HOME. ND needs that back. The number one IMPROVEMENT I can see to DEFEND ND's "PLATE" ND's "SEAT" at the "table" is, ND's FRONTLINE. LOU had BIG, PHYSICAL, TOUGH, INTELLIGENT LINEMAN who were getting DRAFTED left and right by NFL teams. Saturday ND saw an O-line and D-line that was BEATEN BADLY for ND's "SEAT" at the "TABLE", something HOTLZ would never have allowed. I'm NOT saying it is or isn't ND's current coaches fault. But EVERY PLAYER at ND's "TABLE" were recruited to defend ND's TEAMMATES and ND's UNIVERSITY. I never experienced college life but I did play football at a high level at MT.CARMEL in CHICAGO, IL., home of players such as McNABB, SIMEON RICE, CHRIS CALLOWAY just to name a few; and attended ND's games in SOUTH BEND, IN. and at SOLDIER'S FIELD. I know that their is "TALENT" in the MIDWEST along with CAL, TX, FL, OH, ETC. Not as much but it's their.
The BAD is WHO can PROVE, or will PROVE, or has PROVEN that they can get ND back to that natn'l game? At least 1 more time if not ever again in ND's LIFETIME. When it really MEANS something IE CHAMPIONSHIP. Because everyweek means SOMETHING to ND that's nothing new. BUT like on saturday it meant EVERYTHING to NAVY and EVERYTHING to ND in terms of a BCS BID and ND did not show up to play ND's part.
The UGLY is ND's CURRENT coach, THOUGH a great MAN albeit, has PROVEN with his RECORD when measuring W'S AND L'S when they count MOST, that he is INEFFECTIVE! How can ND get to the BIG one if ND can't BEAT the little ONES for ND's spot at the "TABLE"?
FIGHT IRISH 4EVER!!!