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Cornell, Hilliard both choose Ohio State

Jul 2, 2014, 10:20 AM EDT

Property of St. Paul Pioneer Press Property of St. Paul Pioneer Press

Notre Dame ended up bridesmaids in their recruitment of Jashon Cornell and Justin Hilliard, two elite defensive prospects in the Midwest. The defensive end and linebacker made joint announcements, both deciding to attend Ohio State and play for Urban Meyer.

While the technology (’s livestream was suffering from technical difficulties as both announcements were made live) didn’t quite live up to the hype of two top prospects deciding at the same time, Meyer and the Buckeyes are getting two players that the Irish coaching staff — not to mention a few dozen others — targeted early and made priorities.

The loss of Cornell was not a surprise. While Notre Dame has done a great job recruiting Cretin-Derham Hall in the past, Cornell’s eyes had wandered to other programs, first to Michigan and Michigan State before a late visit to Ohio State sealed the deal.

Brian Kelly has also had his fair share of success at St. Xavier’s, the Cincinnati high school Hilliard attends, but Hilliard mentioned his life-long Buckeye fandom and the comfort level he felt with both the players and the coaching staff when making a decision.

With Notre Dame’s recruiting class at 16, it’s hardly dire straits for the Irish as they continue to be in on the recruitment of several elite prospects at both linebacker and defensive end.


  1. andy44teg - Jul 2, 2014 at 10:26 AM

    Good deal…thought my computer was acting up. Hilliard said he wanted to go where he could get a good business degree…doesn’t ND have one of the best business schools in the nation?? hmmmm…maybe he meant like… in..where can I make the most amount of money DURING school. He did look like he needed some tats

    • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 10:39 AM

      Ohio state is a fine School and both guys will do very well. This is my biggest argument over playing a schedule we can’t win – recruiting. Urban has won huge at Ohio State and as a result he will get the recruits. It doesnt matter if the schedule is hard or not recruits see it as a coach who knows what he is doing. Until Notre Dame figures this out we are doomed.

      • andy44teg - Jul 2, 2014 at 10:57 AM

        You keep on saying that Urban has one huge at O$U….Define “huge”. Won the Rose Bowl? Won a NC? Go to the NC? Even won a freaking bowl game????

      • nudeman - Jul 2, 2014 at 11:54 AM

        Last year, if I’ve got this right, OSU was 12-0 going into their conf champion’p game
        To that point they played exactly one school who would finish the season ranked (Wisc)
        The proceeded to get their bums kicked by MSU and Clemson

        It was a charade.
        Play a bunch of schools called Lower Intestine U, Buffalo, San Diego St, FL A&M, Indiana, Illinois, blah blah

        I think he’s tremendously overrated as a coach and lacks character as a man

      • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 11:58 AM

        nudeman Urban wins ! How many NC has Brian K won ? End of Story Talk is cheap

      • andy44teg - Jul 2, 2014 at 12:02 PM

        Couldn’t agree more, Nude. For the people that give ND crap for their supposed “easy” schedule..they need to check out O$U’s for the last 2 years.

      • yllibnosredna - Jul 2, 2014 at 12:03 PM


        Man, every time I read like the first 3 lines of your posts, I’m pretty much in agreement with you. Then you finish it with some serious doomsday statement, and I gotta say your over the top cynicism is off-base.

        Look, here’s the deal: ND really needs to get guys like these if they want to walk into Tallahassee and not be a 24 POINT underdog. And to some extent, BK has–He has landed some damn good blue-chippers in the past couple of recruiting cycles. That’s one of the reasons why I think we CAN be competitive with the big boys. But in order to truly be a serious playoff contender (not necessarily just GET into the playoff but actually COMPETE), ND can’t afford to miss on a 5-star Midwest recruit who ND has been in on for 2 years and attended the same HS as James Onwualu and Michael Floyd. Because guess what: ND IS NOT CURRENTLY “in on the recruitment of several elite prospects at both linebacker and defensive end.” These two guys were ND’s best shot. Now that might change over the course of the season or maybe ND gets one or both to flip, but I guarantee you many of these other alleged elite front 7 defenders, are likely heading to the SEC, FSU, or the West Coast. So no, according to stars and rankings, this is not likely going to be a lights-out, grand slam 2015 recruiting haul. But it still should be a solid one.

        Back to the original doomsday prophecy (johngaltisspeaking): While it would be great to light it up in recruiting rankings, 5 stars and top 5 classes are not everything. And teams can flourish with SYSTEM guys a la Stanford, Oregon, MSU (2013) and Wisconsin. ND just has to find a happy medium because the big-time SEC schools are gonna load up every year so ND could really do with a couple of big fish (particularly in the front 7) each recruiting haul to keep pace. And from what I could tell, Hilliard and Cornell were their best shots. Once again, that may change as the season moves forward but the numbers are already piling up for this class, and quantity is good, but guaranteed quality is what is truly desired. ND has a little ways to go, IMO, to achieve the latter for 2015 recruiting.

      • notredameirish1980 - Jul 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM

        The Ohio State University is the 5th ranked University in the Big Ten (the mathematical ability speaks for itself) and the second ranked national university in Ohio behind Case Western. It lies outside the top 50 national universities, so your definition of ‘fine’ is suspect and on a par with your misuse of the pronoun ‘we’.

      • nudeman - Jul 2, 2014 at 3:10 PM

        A lot of what gets written on these boards about other coaches and schools is just sour grapes. But where Meyer is concerned, he annoys the sh** out of me.

        – Won an NC (or 2? can’t recall) at FL in an environment where he was able to regularly recruit clowns like Aaron Hernandez and several other thugs. Given the same running start and lack of academic oversight I’m sure Kelly’s record would be quite different. I think Kelly is very good but imperfect as a coach, but comparing his record at ND to that of Meyer, Saban, Miles et al as if they’re all on the equal footing is just ignorant.

        – Left ND, which he professed to be his “dream job”, high and dry for more dough at FL. OK, I have no problem with someone taking the dough, but cut the crap about dream job, practicing Catholic, blah blah.

        – Common knowledge in and around Gainseville that his “heart problems” were a smoke screen and the real issue was his impregnating a co-ed. Classy.

        – Will he win at tOSU? Maybe. But give Kelly the same “academic environment” and the same schedule and I’ll take my chances with Kelly. Every. Single. Time.

      • dickasman - Jul 3, 2014 at 12:52 AM

        Ohio state is fine school my a$$. That’s great about math but tell me about their free tattoo n video game program. It’s UNC, Jr. At best.

        As they say at fine THE OSU, Nekka Plz. And I ain’t kidding. That’s precisely how they talk

    • domerboyirish - Jul 2, 2014 at 10:46 AM

      Both originally wanted to go to FSU for free crap, but they both hate seafood.

      Free tattoos and swag are hard to pass up but I’d rather get my degree from ND!

    • Keith Arnold - Jul 2, 2014 at 11:22 AM

      I’ve got no problem with either decision. For Hilliard, he did his homework and laid out his rationale quite clearly the past few weeks. He wanted the Ohio State experience, not the Notre Dame one.

      As for Cornell, for whatever reason, he didn’t see in ND what all the other top recruits from CDH saw. Could’ve been a way to separate himself from the pack and go his own way, but he just didn’t seem enamored with ND.

      • dickasman - Jul 3, 2014 at 12:54 AM

        Took the easy way out, I have no problems. Life is hard. But their “oh we go to same school togetherness gay charade” is what got to me.

    • iamgolden4life - Jul 2, 2014 at 7:54 PM

      Who cares moving on. WeAreND

    • dickasman - Jul 3, 2014 at 12:49 AM

      Awwwwwww how gay. Democrats going to democrat school. Big deal, really.

  2. ndcrusader - Jul 2, 2014 at 10:58 AM

    Too bad about Hilliard… well spoken kid. I don’t blame kids who want to play for their home state teams. Cornell on the other hand… not so much. I doubt he ends up at tOSU.

    • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 10:50 PM

      Hillard picked a hell of a school. He will win a Title under Urban

      • ndcrusader - Jul 3, 2014 at 5:53 PM

        When you strip away the post graduate programs at tOSU, Hilliard will come away with a business degree (IF he stays 4 years) that is so far beneath a bachelors from Mendoza that it is not worth mentioning. tOSU isn’t even the premier state undergrad business school in Ohio as that distinction belongs to the Farmer Business School at Miami. If you are saying he picked a winner meaning that tOSU is a better school than Mississippi State, then yes… he picked a hell of a school.

        In regards to them winning a title in the next 4 years at tOSU… They have the talent, they have the schedule, they have PSU and UM in historic down cycles… but they haven’t one a big game yet in Meyer’s time in Columbus. Eventually they will break through in those games…. and I’d rather see them win a NC than Bama or USC…. but ND is only a Hilliard and good (not great) DL play from that club too. The OL play at ND in 2015-2018 will be historic… and THAT’S what wins championships in football.

  3. fnc111 - Jul 2, 2014 at 11:36 AM

    Cornell was sporting OSU gear weeks ago. Considering this was a tag team all along the writing was on the wall. I’m guessing bigdog is still celebrating his $220 purchase still. Everything is peachy in his world.

    The reason ND never gets over the hump is because Kelly and past coaches can’t recruit in the elite prospects like these two guys.

    • goirishgo - Jul 2, 2014 at 9:09 PM

      Give it a break FNC. You’re just coming off as delusional (instead of just plain wrong) lately.

  4. onward2victory - Jul 2, 2014 at 11:55 AM

    Based on interviews with Hilliard, I think the biggest factor in his decision was that he just liked Meyer better than Kelly. I think CBK is a fantastic CEO and program builder and generally like-able guy, but Urban has a magnetic personality that kids are drawn to. I would bet if the head coaches were switched, this one would go to ND.

    While it sucks to miss out on a Jaylon Smith type talent, we do have an excellent CEO that will keep the train moving. Go Irish.

  5. nudeman - Jul 2, 2014 at 11:56 AM

    Neither of these was hard to see coming.
    As for Cornell, believe I read a couple weeks ago that he is still going to take visits
    But I still don’t see him ending up at ND

    Next …

  6. yllibnosredna - Jul 2, 2014 at 12:06 PM

    Who’s NEXT?

    • papadec - Jul 2, 2014 at 4:33 PM

      Next was yesterday – Ashton White.

  7. onward2victory - Jul 2, 2014 at 12:46 PM

    Nile Sykes already leaving the program?! This is not a good day for NF football…

  8. irishwilliamsport - Jul 2, 2014 at 1:24 PM

    We didn’t have a shot at either of those guys to begin with. Ohio State wins games year after year, they had a great program under Tressel and now an undefeated season and a BSC game the following year under Meyer while we lose a head scratcher to Pitt and to a lousy Michigan team, while Stanford and Oklahoma shellac us. We haven’t won enough to get some more of these guys. Say what you want about Charlie Weis but he got some elite recruits to South Bend, he just couldn’t coach college football and could not recruit defensive linemen or coordinators but his teams did score a lot of points.

    Hopefully now that the QB situation is resolved things will be different but 15 losses in the last 4 years is why its tough for us to get more elite recruits. And look at some of the losses, Tulsa, South Florida, Pitt, Navy crushed us a few years ago, kids see that.

  9. yllibnosredna - Jul 2, 2014 at 1:53 PM


    Don’t see how we didn’t have a shot. For ages, it was all but a foregone conclusion that Cornell would go to ND because of the many visits and the CDH pipeline. Unfortunately, as Keith pointed out above, it looked like he was never “enamored” with ND and probably wanted to carve out his own path.

    I get the impression that Hilliard SERIOUSLY considered Notre Dame and it was a closer race than a lot of people might have thought. In fact, if one of the two were to flip between now and February, my money would be on Hilliard doing so. That being said, he’s an Ohio kid, grew up a Buckeyes fan, and has made a name for himself in Urban Meyer’s backyard. That’s a VERY tough battle for any opposing coach to win. Kudos to Kelly and co. for coming as close as they did. Two years ago, Meyer and Mattison couldn’t pull Jaylon Smith out of our backyard either so it evens out.

    As for ND’s pitiful losses, SURE–They didn’t help recruiting, but keep in mind that following a season (2010) with two of those afore-mentioned losses (Tulsa and Navy), ND still signed 3 high 4/5 star front seven blue-chippers in Tuitt, Lynch, and I. Williams.

    I agree that kids’ perceptions of a program trending upward definitely affect which school they choose (see the 2013 recruiting haul, which at one point included the consensus #1 DT in the country, after the perfect 2012 regular season). However; as mentioned earlier, OSU has not had one impressive win in Meyer’s 2-year tenure. That’s likely to change at some stage but thus far I don’t see any real evidence of how Meyer’s track record at OSU trumps BK’s at ND. Now, if you factor in the success at Florida, then yes I’d give Urban the edge.

    Digression here: But just WHO exactly are we TRULY currently in on as far as elite 2015 DE, DL, and OLB are concerned?

    • notredameirish1980 - Jul 2, 2014 at 2:18 PM

      See Keith’s article on Bleacher Report about the topic.

    • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 3:50 PM

      ” as mentioned earlier, OSU has not had one impressive win in Meyer’s 2-year tenure. ”

      Where the hell do these people come from ? Urban has had an excellent winning record. When are you people gonna pull your head out of your asses and learn that nobody gives a rats ass about tough schedules its all about how many games you win. Why Notre Dame insists on booking these ridiculous games they can’t win is beyond me. We should be playing a mediocre schedule so we have a chance at winning ten games. We are not living in the glory days. ND has had an awful run in the BCS area and if we continue on with these ridiculous schedules we will never see a playoff. As stated in a previous post in 2012 we played a harder schedule than Alabama but that didn’t stop Alabama from Steamrolling us in the NC game. Strength of schedule is BS but for some reason the Athletic director thinks we have Ara Parseghian as coach and we haven’t lost a game in 4 years. When is the insanity gonna end ?

      • 4horsemenrideagain - Jul 2, 2014 at 4:32 PM

        it’s the upcoming playoff that will be the impetus for schools across the board increasing their SOS. a one loss team whose out of conference schedule includes the weak sisters will miss out, while a one loss team with a legitimate out of conference schedule will make the playoff. this will happen every year.

        meyer could have won 10 NC games and the dark cloud hanging over his tenure at Florida would still render him the joke that he is. contrary to nude’s suggestion that Meyer’s “heart condition” was a red herring for a relationship with a student, I always concluded that meyer slinked out of Gainesville to avoid sanctions for the profound failure to maintain any institutional control of his players (to the tune of 31 arrests between ’05 and ’10). he makes jerry tarkanian look like a drill sargeant.

        so while hilliard and cornell don’t deserve scorn or derision from the bittersweet peanut gallery, let’s be straight about who they chose to play for. he may be named after a pope, but he’s no mother Theresa.

      • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 5:08 PM

        I think the big question to ask is what attributes does a criminal football player possess that is absent in a hard working athletic academic player. Whatever the answer is that is what we need to be coaching.

      • nudeman - Jul 2, 2014 at 5:25 PM

        I guess you’re the last to find out that playing a bunch of teams like FL A&M, Buffalo, SD State, Miami of Ohio, Alabama Birmingham, Kent State and Cincinnati … not to mention perennial conference doormats Illinois, Purdue and Indiana doesn’t exactly work in your favor as far as making the playoffs is concerned.

        Can I safely assume you didn’t know that?

      • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 6:45 PM

        Bottom Line the entire system is broke. Very simple fix but it will never happen because the powers that be, NCAA – SEC -ESPN want to keep making money.

        John Galt’s simple steps to fix CFB:

        1) Figure out who is in Div 1 Football. Div 1 plays for a NC and so does Div 2
        2) All Div 1 teams must schedule all Div 1 teams no excuses.
        3) Army, Navy And Airforce will automatically be included in Div 1 and will rotate among all of the conferences. Each player can play up to 6 years. These are the only teams exempt fro joining a conference. Sorry ND you must join the ACC.
        4) Everyone in Div 1 will be in 1 of 4 conferences. Conferences champions will move to the playoff.
        5) There is no selection committee and the Gymnastics rating is eliminated from CFB Indefinitely.

        Next Step would be to Fix Academics in all schools….

      • yllibnosredna - Jul 3, 2014 at 4:44 PM

        @ johngaltisspeaking,

        Try paying attention when you read. Re: “Ohio State has not had one impressive win during Urban Meyer’s 2-year tenure.”

        Other than demolishing Penn State last year, name one impressive, or should I say very impressive, win that OSU can claim in the past two years. They haven’t beaten anyone inside the top 20 in Meyer’s two years there. Their two chances were against MSU and Clemson, whom they both lost to.

        I personally think Meyer’s an excellent coach. Perhaps I don’t hold him in as high regard as when he was at Florida, but the guy is a damn good coach. However, all I was saying is that although his record looks great, his two years at OSU have not featured any big-time wins, namely because they hadn’t played anyone….In case you hadn’t noticed, the Big 10/11 has pretty much SUCKED as of late-particularly in 2012 when they went undefeated.

  10. irishlad19 - Jul 2, 2014 at 2:26 PM

    An often unacknowledged issue in recruiting the top talent is that many of these kids expect to play on Sundays, with a big rookie signing bonus. They really are not planning to pull a serious academic load, and when ND’s academic expectations become clear to them they look elsewhere for NFL exposure without study halls etc.
    I’m not saying tOSU doesn’t have strong academic offerings; I am saying that if Urban’s recruits want to skate academically their desires will be accommodated.

    • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 2:45 PM

      And the blows keep on coming. Nobody can build a program with the amount of transfers we have every year. This is unreal !

      • nudeman - Jul 2, 2014 at 3:13 PM

        That’s true. Very unfair that ND is the only schools to have transfers.

        Now, reality check:
        Morgan, if I’m counting correctly, makes exactly 1 this year, unless you’re counting Kinlaw and Mahone, neither of whom had a chance of making an impact. Ever.

      • nudeman - Jul 2, 2014 at 3:31 PM

        Sorry … meant Sykes, not Morgan

      • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 3:39 PM

        Didnt have a chance because maybe they are:
        …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. 3 Star players

        This is just a calamity !

      • bernhtp - Jul 2, 2014 at 5:44 PM

        I deleted my question to Keith before submitting it as summer school began: whether everyone had checked in. I was expecting an absence. I’m not surprised now.

        I think I’m seeing Kelly (wisely) adjust to the realities of ND. ND isn’t for everyone regardless of how much an athletic stud the recruit is. We’ve seen a good number of recruits crash and burn that were a stretch, at best. While RKG was a nice-to-have before, I think that the character qualities embodied in the term have gone up tremendously in importance.

        The recent group of recruits appears to reflect this change. Their coach’s recommendations feature prominent mention of their character, work ethic and leadership – more than I’ve traditionally seen, Sometimes you get both – elite-level athletic ability and stellar character/leadership such as in a Jaylon Smith, Manti Te’o and Kap Moore. But when there is an imbalance, I now think that the number of Rs will take precedence over the number of stars.

        And we’ll have a better team because of it, IMO.

      • nudeman - Jul 2, 2014 at 6:32 PM

        What exactly have you heard about Sykes?
        I don’t remember his recruitment all that well, know he went to a Catholic HS and Chicago isn’t exactly the other side of the world from SB. So from that standpoint this is sort of surprising. I’ve read speculation about his ACT scores, that’s it.

      • wisner74 - Jul 2, 2014 at 11:01 PM

        Nude – I believe that Sykes was a rather late addition to the class from Montini high school. I do not believe that ND was on him from the start.

      • bernhtp - Jul 3, 2014 at 9:10 AM

        The academic responsibilities don’t stop on national signing day, which is months before HS graduation. Especially athletes with a marginal/low academic profile will often be asked to step it up for the spring semester. Ultimate admission is dependent upon living up to these promises and performance standards.

        When an already at-risk student doesn’t meet these expectations, especially by a wide margin, the prospects for them succeeding at ND are very poor, and they generally won’t be admitted regardless of a signed LOI. Thankfully, this is not common, but I did get a whiff that it was very likely this year (without mention of person). My guess is that a last chance was given in summer school and it just wasn’t happening. I don’t have personal knowledge of this situation, but do have a bunch of dots that aren’t tough to connect.

  11. irishlad19 - Jul 2, 2014 at 9:15 PM

    John Galt you are amusing in your relentless negativism about ND football, a regular broken record.
    You make some good points, then obscure them with silly attacks on whatever annoys you.

    • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 10:48 PM

      Why thank you Irish Lad

  12. FreQaZoiD - Jul 2, 2014 at 9:52 PM

    No offense, KA, but an article/post on this site about kids/recruits that don’t pick ND is hardly necessary. I would much rather read about POSITIVE news about my beloved Alma Mater and their sports teams. For example, a blurb how 2015’s class stands at 17 with the possible Next Great Irish WR/TE Miles Boykin commitment today? Any stars and rankings on the recruiting side are not what what truly excites me. Now about that upcoming season with a killer (but ever intriguing) schedule…

  13. johngaltisspeaking - Jul 2, 2014 at 10:54 PM

    This article says it best:

    Notre Dame will end up around 15 to 20. Like Stated before Ohio State, USC and Bama will all be part of the top 5. The other two are yet to be determined.

    • wisner74 - Jul 2, 2014 at 11:02 PM

      Johngalt: Anyone who thinks highly of Ayn Rand as either a thinker or a writer is suspect in my book.

      • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 3, 2014 at 12:48 AM

        There is no mysticism only logic so I am sure you are having a hard time.

      • bernhtp - Jul 3, 2014 at 10:15 AM

        You don’t have to agree with Rand’s philosophy to acknowledge her brilliance as a writer and thinker. Her mastery of imagery is a particular strength, especially of otherwise abstract concepts.

        Some dislike her wooden characters that are distillations of philosophical principles instead of people/actions you see in real life. But that is her purpose and not terribly unusual given her Russian upbringing and being steeped in the Russian Romantic tradition.

        Many dislike her speeches/screeds, especially the one beginning with “This is John Galt Speaking” given its almost 60 page length. Yes, it is highly unusual to embed a manifesto in a novel, but it certainly isn’t evidence of weakness as a thinker or writer.

        But the real hate for Rand comes from violent disagreement with her ideas (laissez faire, radical individualism, egoism, atheism are the most common). OK, I get it. You disagree, but to say that she is not much of a thinker or writer is typically dishonest or not terribly thoughtful. I disagree with Rand in many areas as I do with many others that I acknowledge to be brilliant.

      • nudeman - Jul 3, 2014 at 10:36 AM

        You are far more erudite than moi, Bern.
        Decades ago I had a sales manager who talked of the Fountainhead as being the book of all books.
        Right up there with the Bible.
        The Mantle & Maris of all novels. So I read it. More like Smoky Burgess and Don Hoak.

        Then someone recommended Atlas Shrugged.

        I went and had all my teeth pulled instead. Without Novocain.
        Much better.

      • don74 - Jul 3, 2014 at 11:29 AM


        As they say on the golf course…You Da Man.

      • wisner74 - Jul 3, 2014 at 12:44 PM

        Bern – “typically dishonest”? You were pretty quick to pull the trigger on that one. What? Are you already in your cups so early in the day? Take a couple aspirin and go read some Isaiah Berlin.

        Dial it back, buddy.

        You got me on the “thinker” issue. No argument there. She was a great and compelling thinker. Let me explain: I was just throwing out a comment on an ND football site. I’m really not sorry if I offended you. My antipathy (not “real hate”) comes from the attitudes and activities of those on the far right who seem to revere her and her thinking. As being manifested in real life here in the good old USA these days — Happy 4th, by the way — her ideas turn out to be as lousy as Marx and Engels’ ideas proved to be when put into action by the far left. How ideas actually work in real life is the true test, isn’t it?

        She was a lousy novelist, though. Maybe I should not have used the broader word “writer.” In addition to creating wooden characters, her dialog was awful. Critical elements to any good novel. She should have stuck with essays and non-fiction books. I read Anthem in high school. I really enjoyed it, but it was high school — I thought she was science fiction writer! I tried Fountainhead about ten years ago. I apparently don’t have the perseverance Nude has. I gave it about fifty pages and then quit. There are thousands and thousands of better things to read in our glorious world than her novels.

        You’re becoming a bit of a scold, aren’t you bern?

      • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 3, 2014 at 12:48 PM

        nudeman and wisner74 I hear Bill Mayer is pretty good if you like comedy.

      • bernhtp - Jul 3, 2014 at 1:19 PM

        Wisner: you only quoted the “typically dishonest” portion and not the “or …” that came after it. I guess I can remove the “or” given this new context.

        I’m not offended. I don’t ever get offended. I think taking offense is psychological weakness/pathology. I just disagree.

        Nude et al: Rand is clearly not everyone’s cup of tea, but neither is anyone else. I remember being assigned Madame Bovary in one of my college (maybe high school) classes. All of my attempts to read the book quickly resulted in falling asleep. Despite finding it totally soporific, I would never accuse Flaubert of being a terrible writer or novelist, which was my main point about Rand.

        While I do appreciate Rand as a writer (yes, I really like the premises, stories and characters in The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged), she was personally a total weirdo as depicted in the biographies of her. Her acolytes, in particular, are a completely detestable group – a strong cultish flavor ostensibly about individualism. Very dogmatic and strange.

      • ndgoldandblue - Jul 4, 2014 at 11:13 PM

        Who’s Bill Mayer?

      • wisner74 - Jul 5, 2014 at 12:18 AM

        I think he meant Bill Maher, NDgold, who actually can be quite funny when he’s on. Mr. Galt isn’t always careful with the specifics, or with his spelling for that matter.

      • upthera44 - Jul 7, 2014 at 8:13 AM

        Nice, a literature discussion!

        Bernhtp makes some decent points about Rand. There is a reason she is so famous (though I think it’s less about her gift for imagery and style and more about how her books reflect traditional American ideology about rugged individualism, capitalism & competition and an aversion to social programs).

        You’re right, my harsh post about Rand previously reflects my distaste for her ideas–which I see as a knee-jerk reaction to her own experiences in the USSR–and also distaste for the Tea Party and far right rhetoric in America today, which they evoke (i.e. celebrating free market and no regulation, when in my opinion corporations have run amok and upward redistribution of wealth in the last 2-3 decades has gotten out of hand. Basically the country has shifted to the right, indisputably). So it’s unfair just to say she sucks as a writer. I actually really liked her novels when I was in high school. But I’m not in high school anymore.

  14. NotreDan - Jul 2, 2014 at 11:34 PM

    I love the moments where KA becomes engaged.

    Honestly, neither one of these fellas could make the grade @ND. oh well, move on

  15. c4evr - Jul 3, 2014 at 10:07 AM

    With all this talk of such tough admissions standards and a top-notch education, you’d think the program would be filled with Rhode’s Scholars. Have you guys even heard Rudy Ruettiger speak??

    • bernhtp - Jul 3, 2014 at 2:13 PM

      Rudy, as even depicted in the movie, was equally qualified to be admitted as a student or as a football player. He had/has both mediocre athletic and intellectual ability and not anywhere near Notre Dame’s exceptional standards. The one area where he excelled was in his drive and persistence. The movie was about heart – an extreme level of desire that refused to take no as an answer to what he most wanted.

      Rudy is a great story, but one that is far less likely now than in the 70s when there were more CSCs having more influence. Notre Dame has become larger and more competitive in admissions and while intangibles can move the needle significantly higher, it would never move it up sufficiently from Rudy’s level.

  16. irishdog80 - Jul 3, 2014 at 2:30 PM

    I appreciate that Kelly has a recruiting “plan”. Everywhere you look on the roster, there are players capable of stepping in and perform at least acceptably, if not remarkably…a major improvement that we have not seen since the days of Holtz. True organizational depth makes a huge difference at practice and game time.

    With respect to recruiting rankings, so long as we are bringing in players that are at least Top 50 at their position, we should be OK. We have all seen the 8th Grader that is “going to be in the NFL someday” turn into the guy that doesn’t start as a Senior in high school. The same applies…to a somewhat lesser degree…with the 5 Star can’t miss prospect. So long as we are bringing in Top 50 talent that is “ascending” with high ceilings, we will compete for Top 10 rankings and possible National Championships. The tale will be told in the number of true “difference makers” we bring in or identify and coach up to be “difference makers”. Golson was enough of a “difference maker” in 2012 to get us to 12-0. Now with an improved O-line and surrounded by playmakers I am optimistic that we might have some lightning in a bottle once again. No worries about Cornell and Hilliard…there are plenty of difference makers still out there to bring in or develop on our current roster.

    • johngaltisspeaking - Jul 3, 2014 at 7:37 PM

      I will take it one step further. In order to be a BCS or playoff caliber team you MUST be recruiting in the top ten. The only team that is exempt from this rule is Oregon simply because they beat up on teams with scheme alone. ( Another topic for another day but I do think running an Oregon style system is a huge advantage for ND ).

      Look at the FACTS:

      1) Teams that won in the BCS era almost always were the teams recruiting within the top ten.
      2) If you look back at the years ND won NC’s they also were recruiting in the top 5. As stated on 247 Lou Holtz had 3 back to back years with #1 recruiting classes. IF you look back even further the same holds true to all the past NC ND won.
      3) Brian K was able to recruit blue chip defensive players. The 2012 defense was primarily made up of blue chip players. As a result we end up in the NC game.

      So ND fans who think we can get it done with 3 star players are delusional. Its never gonna happen no matter how good they are in the classroom or how much they pray.

      The shocking truth is Brian K might be one great coach but unfortunately he might not ever win a NC because Notre Dame could be holding him back. Imagine BK coaching at Auburn , USC or Texas A&M were the blue chip players are flooding the programs. I would be willing to bet that Notre Dame had a bigger pool of players to choose from prior the 90’s. In fact I bet the academic standards were not that far off from ND to other big named schools.Presently ND seems to be in a different category of education thus the pool of players has tightened over the years. I believe these trends are causing Notre Dame so many problems on the field. I do find it strange that Brian K rushed to fill up the roster this year. I am really starting to wonder if the school isn’t putting pressure on getting kids who will stick for 4 years in order to keep graduation rates up high. Either case the deck is stacked against ND. I believe that the University has to seriously think through a plan to reinvent themselves in todays education / Athlete battle. Sticking to the same old plan I am afraid is not going to give the winning results. As a fan I am getting tired of more and more fans buying into mediocrity ! The reason I became an ND fan was because they won on both fronts the field and the classroom. If they have become an 8 win team every year with great academics then lets have them play with Princeton and Harvard. The reality is if the school does not change with the market they might find themselves as another Princeton.

      • ndcrusader - Jul 3, 2014 at 8:55 PM

        It can be done. Stanford has been right there for 3 years in a row. ND one year. I agree that it is very difficult to do but it is being done every year by 2 extraordinary schools…

      • irishdog80 - Jul 4, 2014 at 12:33 AM

        I think that net/net you need to relax and wait to see what happens this year. By my estimation, and many others, the issue for ND during the Kelly “Era” is that we have lacked consistent quality QB play. Put a Top 10 QB on ND for the past 4 years and ND wins at least another 6-8 games and ND has several 10 win seasons. Put Tommy Rees and Dayne Crist on Stanford and Stanford loses another 6-8 games or more.

        The other main difference maker has been O-line depth and D-line depth. ND is only this year completely recovered from the lack of O-linemen that goes back to the Weis era who had to deal with the Willingham lack of O-line and D-line recruiting. Weis made some headway, but did not bring it all the way back. The Alabama juggernaut that we faced in the NCG had one of the best O-lines that college football may have ever seen. ND is approaching that level and it will only get better and with improved O-line play—we will have better QB, RB, WR and TE play. Look at the difference for AJ in 2013 versus 2012. Alabama had the same level of skill players, but not O-line play.

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